• Mathew Vandart Vandart

    Member
    July 28, 2012 at 8:01 am
    66

    Hi, thanks for your quick reply! I knew the K9-1 forum would be my best bet for assistance!

    @jocomoreno 1094 wrote:

    Hmm a little more information might be helpful. Lets follow the triangle and see…
    Knowledge: Has the dog bitten any other dogs? Was it just that one time? Are there any other situations when this happens? Do you ever see any body language when hes with the other dogs that might indicate fearful/defensive behaviors or otherwise? More details might help piece together a scenario and a trigger.

    I was told that he was great with other dogs, after the event the breeder we got him from (He has always been a stud dog) came a bit cleaner that it had happened before. I had suspicions as he has some scars on the top of his head that were well healed and probably a year old. In my eyes he shows no fearful/defensive behaviour whilst playing possibly a bit of dominant body laguage. He has only been here for four days so alot of this I cannot answer yet. I have got him wearing his ‘party hat’ 😮 using the method in Mikes video (a variation of which I would have used anyway) so I can probably get some more video later today. However I will probably leave his dog interaction until I get more suggestions from this thread.
    I got out of the breeder that she wouldn’t let him on his own with another dog but he had successfully played with many dogs a number of times. This dog has won a bull terrier dog show??? So he cant be extremely dog aggressive

    Health: Any health issues we should know about? Ear infections, tooth infections, etc?

    He has no health issues whatsoever he is in peak condition

    Attitude: Are respect, patience, calm confidence and poise being displayed during training, handling, etc

    I am always calm when training. Although I have only recently found this foundation system, I have been training dogs for a very long time using similar methods. That is not to say I havn’t learned anything from K9-1 videos and from reading the foundation method on this site, I have learned alot. If you would be so kind as to have a look at some of my other videos you can get an idea of how I train if it would be handy for this problem. Maybe there is something I do wrong, although my dobermans are almost perfect, lolz

    Golden rules: Timing, motivation, consistency. Have you watched him as he plays with other dogs. Timing is especially important here. If you can catch him in the act you might be able to intervene immediately. With the proper motivation and consistency you might be able to correct this behavior. Assuming hes giving you a sign before he bites.

    I Watched him carefully throughout the first session he met the other dogs which was about 2hrs long he showed no signs of aggression at all, he was mostly submissive-neutral and very polite. During the second session he was a bit more confident in himself but was still playing well. I (maybe wrongly) assumed he was doing fine and as it was time for the dobermans training I then called them and took them off for a training session. This is when it all kicked off about 3 mins later as I was walking through our gate off to the training feild.

    Pack structure: I noticed this bite took place in your home and after you had left. Are pack structure rules being followed in the house by all members of the household? Toys, beds, food, affection, going out? Are the members of the household in control of all those things and are they initiating walks and play sessions? If he is being assertive when initiating a play session with another dog it could be directly related to pack structure.

    This is possibly the issue here. I have 28 years of training dogs under my belt, I started when I was 10 learning from my father, who used more traditional methods if you get me. I developed my current style myself over the years. So I just naturally follow pack structure rules and keep them in check. Dogs just generally understand that I am the boss ( a big claim I know).
    My wife has grown up round dogs and has been involved in the training of all our dogs, but can be a bit sloppy in her routine. Having said that she will initiate play, walks, food etc. She is not as knowledgeable in terms of theory or experience as me so may have missed the cues that he was gonna kick off, well she did basically because it happened. I think her bull terrier may have been a very important player in this whole scenario looking at the vid.

    Restless spirit: Are dog group sessions his only workout for the day? What his exercise routine like?

    Ok, here is the score, he has been here for three days so this cannot be answered properly here. However in these three days he has had alot of attention. Not as in Pats and such like, but walks on the lead around the garden off lead play sessions, one to one obedience with myself/no dogs one to one with my wife and older boy (The dog is doing very well with this). He definitely made alot of decisions with his previous owner especially during walks. He is very difficult to get motivated to play, I don’t believe he knows how to do it or what fun it can be. He was a breeder stud in a 6ftx 3ft run so I assume he didn’t get massive amounts of play.
    I must say at this point, his owner was NOT a horrible back yard breeder you hear stories about. She genuinely loved this dog, she cried terribly when we collected him and has been in available and willing contact since he left. Although I suspect her motives for rehoming him were issues such as we see here, she also moved him on as she had a relationship break down with her partner and saw that she could not have the time for him so was looking for a better home for him that could.

    Anxiety: Any anxiety issues. Chewing, destructiveness, peeing/pooping? The idea here is to remove as many stressors in the dogs life as possible.

    Only a bit of whining that can be expected when a dog has such a massive life change, he whines more when I go past his pen with the other dogs (which is very big, has plenty of shade and sun and a draft proof kennel. He has water down constantly but is not left with food down only a bone when he will be left for a long time.

    Housebreaking: Accidents in the house?

    No issues as of yet, he has been a kennel dog and will continue to be a kennel dog until he is reliably mended, he has had forays into the house on a lead but had no major issues other than a bit of excitement.
    He did however get out of his pen on the first night (he can unlock gates and open doors with lever handles) the dobermans chased him out into the garden (this was at 2 in the morning) and he had done a bit of mayhem in the kitchen, as in getting stuff off the counter. He was very spooked by the dobermans and left the building, I found him on the steps outside my kitchen door with that ‘guilty look’ on his face (I am aware that it is not a look of guilt, but it is a well known dog facial expression so the best describer I can make)
    He has had no more issues with house problems but he also has not been in the house on his own since.

    Obedience: Obedience could help alot in this situation. If you see him getting into a situation you dont like you could recall him, let him reset and then let him back into the group. How far along in the obedience are you?

    His obedience is minimal, he could do a slow sit and paw when we got him, I have got him sitting first ask appx. 80% of the time, he does come now but gets a bit of environmental deafness now and again, mostly he is coming when called. His currency is definitely and fairly obviously affection, I don’t think he had massive amounts in his previous life.

    As you can see a little more details might help us put together a picture of whats triggering him. Troubleshooting everything in the triangle along with a better picture will help us better see whats happening here.

    Here is the video of him interacting on the first session:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7JhLotZ40bA

    The dog barking is the neighbours male GSD from over the fence.

    vids of training can be seen here: Grokefish – YouTube

    There is a video in there of me rehabing a Doberman male called Reggie which will give you an idea of obedience training I do and a chance to get some suggestions on my general training method.
    Reggie had no obedience and was very very boisterous and bitey.
    His bites were more predictable though, he would posture first, he was lead aggressive/reactive.

    Hope this helps and thanks again.