Judy B.
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Dave,
Thats a tough position to be in. Have the owners if these dog been around when this has happened? Who was with these other dogs. You could try talking to them and explain what has happened and how dangerous the situation is having the dogs running around unsupervised. Also what kind if area is this in? Do you have leash laws? Leash laws are enforced were we are. I would definitely keep citronella spray on hand like “spray shied” anyway for emergency situations. It is easy to carry and access. If the likelihood and chance of spray back to yours dogs is less than the chance of your dogs getting injured I would take the chance. Some dogs may not even care about the citronella but you should always keep it on hand. Even if if gets in your dogs eyes it would be ok in the long-term and better than your dog getting mauled. Mace is pepper spray. And is different. Also you should keep another leash on had for emergency situations…like loose dogs. I am not saying you should go near a strange dogo and try and leash him up….but you never know when you might need it if a dog is coming at you. Be careful and don’t forget some dogs have a lot of fight drive too. You don’t want to get into a situation where you’re trying to keep a dog at bay using certain techniques and you end up triggering fight drive and you’re in a loosing battle. That can be very dangerous. I would definitely carry spray shield and if at all possible, see if you can find out who the owners are and non confrontationaly talk to them about the safety concerns you have. Situations where you can only control your dogs and have no control over your outside environment are tricky and makes you wish that everyone were as responsible with their dogs. If I come up with any other suggestions I will ket you know! Most importantly you want to stay safe.
Judy
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Hi Taylor! Great job! Dont forget when you are walking with your dog to give lots of feedback. Talk to your dog, praise your dog, sing to your dog lol…..let your dog know he’s doing a good job. They do well when positive feed back is given. Sometimes they go through the motions but aren’t quite sure if they are really doing the right thing unless we tell them or get board unless we keep it enjoyable for them. They feed off our energy and we want them to be relaxed and not worry when they are doing well. Something that might also be helpful is watching the leash ninja video. Leash pumps work best when there is constant steady pressure on the leash and then pumps. Sometimes if there isn’t constant steady pressure our pumps can become bounces….when there is bounce in the leash the dog actually gets moments where the correction stops and they get a moment of a break so to speak from it. Steady pressure and constant annoying pumps might get him to turn around a little quicker next time then add lots of exciting praise and love. You did a really great job! Especially since the leash you have isn’t easy to pump with, it might be worth it to look into a leather or biothane leash as it will make pumping and leash handling much easier and smoother for you.. I liked that you praised him when he tured around and you gave him feedback. Timing is everything, make sure the second he even turns his head or looks at you you give him praise right away….dont forget we can absolutely use variable high value rewards when they have accomplished something that is very difficult for them or something they really would rather not do. If he does something big, let him know it….increase the reward even if its just the tone of your voice or the excitement for the accomplishment or lots of hands on love! Those were great videos! Keep up the good work! And keep the videos coming!
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That’s great to hear! It seems like you handled that so well and made progress! It’s good you gave her lots of praise after. As soon as she even turns her head and looks at you start the praise right away! I’m happy you had a good session. Keep us posted! Keep up the good work!!
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Whenever we have had puppy classes we would generally only have puppies with puppy teeth still. Usually around 5 or 6 months we would age them out.
Puppy play is practice fighting, practice hunting.. as a general rule of thumb if you take the puppy you think is getting “bullied” away and that puppy WANTS to go back then that’s ok. You will see the roles constantly changing throughout the play. Growling and noises are normal, it’s how they learn to communicate and respond to signals from each other. If there is any dog that seems like it is just too timid and wants no part of it it’s ok to scoop the dog up and see if there is a better match for the dog.
Typically we would let’s the dogs tire themselves out the first half of class while the second half consisted of everyone leashing their dogs up and spreading out in a circle. At that point we would do a little bit of education for the owners. Typically on leadership. You can see that section on this site. This is really the most important things to teach the owners I believe. Even over obedience. You can’t teach successful obedience if there is conflict between the role of the dog and theor owner.
I wouldn’t try to excpect obedience during a puppy class while the puppies are in the middle of enjoying “sparing” with each other but it is a good idea to demo and have everyone practice some phase one positive treat training. You can see how we do this in some of the phase 1 videos. It’s good to start teaching these things and it’s fun for the owners and gives something fun for them to practice with their dogs. It’ll give them something to practice till next puppy class. But remember it’s about competing motivators and it can’t be expected if a dog may not listen during puppy play. Always teach in a teaching environment and build from there. Always set the dogs up for success. Once the dogs understand why it’s good to do things and understand the behavior you wabt from then, you can then progress the training.
If there is anything that the owners feel uncomfortable with just reassure them that it is ok to always scoop up or move their puppy. Sometimes there aren’t good matches and it is good to divide innthe class if needed. That’s ok. To keep clients coming back they just need reassurance that things are normal for dogs. A lot of times people get worried about normal puppy play when they hear growling and they get loud. As long as both puppies want to interact and they have puppy teeth it’s normal. A lot of times the timid dogs start to warm up to the others.
Another thing we would sometime do was after we leashed up the puppies and took them out for a short break to relieve themselves, was pass the puppy. It’s was simply pass the puppy to the person next to you while we would teach leadership and answer questions. Just remember to have everyone respect each other’s puppys. Some are super friendly and some are timid. Most important was to never do anything that others are uncomfortable with but usually people like it.
For those that feel “ashamed” of overly confident dogs or overly fearful dogs the best thing to do is during your teaching half of the session reassure them. Talk about what normal dog behavior is and explain to them a little bit about what they are seeing. People get embraased when they don’t have what they think is the perfect dog in class. Get each one to realize the good about their dog. Repeat clients just need to know and feel like they are in a place where they are accepted and not judged and where they can learn something. Even if they are sitting with their scared dog under the chair in the corner that’s ok….give them something they can take home. Give them info, give them something they can do at home. Not every dog will want to interact …and that’s ok. It sounds like the classes are on the right track so that’s great.
What types of dogs do you have. Explain the breed to the owners helps too. Different breeds will interact differently. Teach the owners about body language so they can learn to recognize the signs the dogs are giving to each other. Once people understand more about their dog and the other dogs it becomes a better experience for them.
This site has so much great info! Take a look at some of the phase 1 videos, Def look at the canine behavior section which is the first layer of the triangle and def look at the leadership section. These are all great pieces of information to provide in a class. Keep it simple for them this way even the ones with the timid dogs feel as though they left and still gained something from the class.
Puppy classes are great to watch! You can learn so much from simply paying attention 🙂
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Hi Andrew, I was reading through your post, I looks like you’re doing a great job.
One thing you could do when you’re eating instead of having to worry about him pestering you…that would actually be a good time to provide him with one if his bones he usually doesn’t get. If he onky gets them at certain times you can use it as a tool to your advantage when you need it. If you want to relax while you eat and you know he really really wants something he’ll be more likely to engage with what you give him at that time. It can become a routine know what he needs and provide him before he “asks”.
For example I know every single night after my dog eats I know he needs something to chew on. If not he starts to pace around and and starts to put his nose in your face. So every night after Orfeo eats, I provide him with something to chew. As long as he has it in possession I leave him with it. Once he drops it and walks away I will then pick it up. Or sometimes I may trade with him and give him something extra special in exchange.
It’s just something you could try. Give him his own spot or place and give him something special to keep him occupied if you feel that’s a time he exceptially wants something.
As long as you have a routine that works for you and is in the best interest of everyone and your dog and he’s being provided with what he needs to feel satisfied it’s all good. Just I tip that I do. 🙂
Keep us posted and let us k ow if you have any questions.
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Hello there!!
I saw this old post and wanted to address it since is such an important topic.
As a general rule we do teach that sleeping in beds and on furniture is frowned upon and is never recommended.
Resting places are a resource that is very important to dogs. For example, many wild and or feral dogs especially in very sunlit areas seek shaded areas so they do not overheat. When shaded areas are limited you will see conflict over these areas between the dogs. Just as food and other limited recourses are important to dogs, we treat resting places with just the same importance.
When a dog starts feeling as though a spot they are used to is their own and they claim it as their own, conflict can arise. It may not be initially, but when it does, this is usually when we hear of aggression that people feel is “unprovoked” or they don’t understand what happened because the dog “ has never shown signs of agression before”. People usually feel there was no reason for the aggression, when in fact there is ALWAYS a reason. Sure you can have dogs like the dogs that you are speaking of and you may never have a problem, but there are numerous dogs that if the same thing is done and they are allowed on the beds you WILL at some point run into a conflict situation and it can and has turned detrimental. Genetics do play a roll, so does leadership. Someone who has a dog on the bed and turns over the wrong way one night may just get a warning snarl or maybe nothing at all, but on the other hand someone may have a dog who will skip steps in the aggression cycle and without warning will do 0 to 100 and go straight to a bite. Depending in the dog, that bite could be a nip, or that bite could sever your leg off.
How the dog is raised matters, but it will NOT cancel out genetics. If you raise a dog with good leadership it will not change the dogs genetics but it can make things easier to manage and control with less conflict in the dogs mind. You can have 2 dogs raised the same way both brought into bed as a pup like you stated. One may wean him self out the bed and not care much for it as you mentioned with yours but another dog raised the same exact way may not do the same. The chances to find this out are not chances we would like to take. Unfortunately breed will make a difference as to the type of aggression or the tendencies for aggression as well genetics.
All dogs bite for the same reasons, it’s just naturally worse with certain breeds as opposed to others.So it sounds like you have had some good dogs and have not really had many issues with resting places, or maybe the dog hasn’t been in a position to feel competition with others over those resting places so you have been fortunate. Age also makes a difference. Dogs generally start to mature about 2 years of age on average. So someone who had a great dog and no issues in the bed as a pup, 4 month, 6 months, 8 months maybe even a year may not get them same continued behavior later on in life as they did when the pup was younger. So a good pup in the bed doesn’t mean you will have the same at 1/2/3/4 years of age. With leadership it’s better to address all aspects of what is important to dogs. This way the role is clear to them and they don’t have confusion from early on. Typically we start to see the signs as dogs mature. Most people who never had issues start to see problems around that 2 year mark if the same entitlement continues such as allowing on the bed. You can have a perfect dog with no issues and if you allow it up only when you say its ok you may not have experienced these same types of problems that others have.
It is our responsibility as professionals to teach others how to be safe and not to take unnecessary chances. So we never reccomend furniture as being a good idea. Any any dog in protection class is never allowed to be on furniture especially. If we can save 1 child from being killed or 1 person from going to the hospital we have served a purpose.
The leadership section does list the potential side effects of allowing dogs on our beds and resting places.
I agree with you that when a pup comes home you want to nurture it for sure. Nurturing a pup is very important! Below is the post I had written on brining home a new puppy….this is how I prefer to stay close to my pup when sleeping at night time and I have always had success without any separation anxiety.
Thank you for your great question. When someone hasn’t encountered a bad experience in a way that other have it can be difficult to understand how certain techniques don’t work for all dogs the same. Unfortunately not all are so lucky. I hope this helps ?
Below is the post I wrote about what I do when brining home a new pup you may have seen it but i figured i repost it …..?
When a puppy first leaves its mother and litter mates it can be a very stressful time for them. Dogs, like wolves are pack animals and when they are separated from one another they can experience stress. This can manifest itself as crying and or whining that can not be explained by any other factors. You want to try to make the transition as smooth as possible for your puppy. You can still maintain leadership rules while making the transition.
When bringing your puppy home using a crate is a good idea. Dogs tend to feel safe and secure in their own den, you can keep them safe and out of trouble when times call for it and they can have a safe place that is their own that they do not have to worry about competing for later in life. It gives them their own comfortable space off of the beds and furniture and can be used to teach them routines.
For very young puppies just ready to leave their mother, you want to make this transition as smoothe as possible. The crate should be just large enough for the dog to completely stretch out and stand up in. If the crate is too small the puppy will be cramped and uncomfortable and it isn’t good for growth. If the crate is too large where the dog can get up and move to far corners, the dog may form habits of relieving themselves if they have an area large enough that they can do so and then move away from it. Dogs do not like to soil the area where they rest so proper crate size is important. When you and your pup get settled in to go to sleep you may want to sleep right next to the crate. Put a towel or blanket over the back half of the crate if you do not have a enclosed crate. I generally like to initially sleep next to the crate with the door open the first few nights in this way the puppy doesn’t feel alone and you are right there to give comfort by touch. When I see that the puppy is not crying and doesn’t seem stressed, I will close the crate door but will still sleep next to the crate. Slowly you can now move yourself a little farther and farther from the dog. You can either move yourself, or slowly move the crate away from you. This may sound excessive to some of you but I speak from experience and I assure you it is not. Can you have a puppy that does fine without all of this yes. Does that mean because we perceive them as being fine they aren’t stressed, not necessarily. Will some puppies just wine and get over it, yes of course. They will all probable do so if left to cry it out but why would we want to give our puppies a stressful initial week or two when it has just left its mother. Taking the first week or two to acclimate the puppy to its new home can be very beneficial. This is what I have done in the past. My dog never cried or whimpered, never had separation anxiety, he loves his crate and don’t worry, if this is done correctly does not create a spoiled or entitled dog.
Another good tip is to feed your puppy its meals in the crate. It makes the crate a good place they enjoy going into. Also always lead your puppy into its crate or kennel with something good, a nice reward and if they will be in there for a longer amount of time. If you must leave them alone, give them something that will occupy them. Something to chew on or a kong filled with a nice frozen treat will usually keep them busy. Separation anxiety is usually the worst the first half hour so if you can give them something to keep them occupied enough to get them over that initial hump it will help.
Review the leadership section under the knowledge base to learn about leadership rules and how to create a dog that is provided for. I have has much success without any separation anxiety this way and have raised happy dogs that I have been able to wonderfully bond with.
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Hello again. I had a chance to read back a bit about your heel/pulling issues on walks. You always want to set the dog up for success. If you feel he doesn’t fully understand a heel since you are just starting to teach it I wouldn’t expect him to heel out and about with you with distractions. If you get a chance to check out the leash manner video this is something that I think is very important to teach. What it even means to be on the leash first. Leash manners is not a formal command. It just means when on the leash he has to respect how much you give him and not go any further. We like to start off with a short but loose leash. This means the dog can’t really take more than one step away from you without hitting the end of the leash but if the dog is near you the leash is still the same length but it is loose. The buckle will be relaxed. When firts teaching leash manners you just stay put and hang out with your dog. You don’t even need to move. The dog is on a short but loose leash, no formal commands are given. When the dog takes a step out and creates tension on the leash you simply are going to just be annoying with perpetual leash pumps until the dog takes just a step back. Then lots of praise!! Don’t pull the dog back, keep gentle tension on the leash and pump until the dog figures out that he can make this annoying thing go away by just stepping back. It can take a few seconds it can take 5 min. You just be patient and teach. Make it a big deal when he does the right thing. Then when you thing he is figuring it out, you can start to take maybe 1 side step. It the dog comes with you great…praise the dog. If not you just leash pump. Remember as soon as the dog moves to relieve the tension the pump stops and you praise. Then you can start walking with the dog and do the same thing. When you feel comfortable with this you can also do this on the side you are heeling on but without formal heel or commands. This can get the dog used to it as well. It is easier for the dog to learn if he can only take one step away at first rather than 5 steps before he gets a pump. Later on you can choose to give the dog as little or as much leash as you want….he just has to respect it and will learn once he starts putting tension on you will be annoying until he makes it go away. I think while teaching the heel it will be easier for you and him to go on walks using leash manners rather than formal heel. Just until you get heel down in a less stimulating teaching environemnt first. Keep practicing the heel but always set the dog up for success at the stage. Hope that helps a little as well!
Keep us posted!
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There are no dumb or too analytical questions. In fact that is an excellent question. There is a place for a “no” marker. It’s used almost how you described above except we use the “no” as a chance for the dog to fix itself if confused or made an honest mistake. Your command structure is good, the only tweek would be not giving any correction on the “no”. It would look like “Kimba” – “place” – (he doesnt do it) – “no” (without any body language, or correction, you’re a statue so to speak) – then if he doesn’t done it – “command with correction”. The no is just a marker, to mark the wrong behavior. You have to teach the dog the “no”. Meaning the dog needs to learn that if he does the wrong thing you will mark it with the “no” and then 100 percent of the time you will follow up with “command and correction” if he does not “fix” himself. If the dog does correct himself on the “no” you just give lots of praise. You will know the dog has learned and understands the “no” when you use it and the dog “fixes” himself and you do not have to follow it up with help. The “no” is a conditioned punished. The dog will come to learn that when he hears “no” if he doesn’t fix himself you will follow up every time with “command and correction/help”. This way it’s predictable and the dog will start responding to the “no” without actually having to be corrected. In using the “no” this way, we are being fair to the dog. The dog won’t have to worry about walking around in eggshells if it makes an honest mistake. He will know you will give him a fair chance to fix himself without worrying about being corrected all the time. Having said that, once you teach the “no” by simply following through in the way above, you then use the “no” to your discretion. If the dog is blatantly just flipping you the bird so to speak because there’s something else it wants….you just skip the no and go straight to command and correction. If you see the dog is trying or just made an honest mistake or forgot and did the wrong thing you would use the “no”. So if a dog was lunging at another dog im going to skip the “no”. If doing some obedience around the home and I see tge dog is reallyvtrting i will use it. Also Its important not to ever poison the “name” or the “no” by correcting when you use them. You don’t want a jumpy dog. Also you only use the “no” one time. As well as the name one time before any new command. If the dog isn’t paying attention he will learn to because you will teach him you will be fair and consistent and will always follow through the same way. Remember the “no” just means “wrong, try again” so it should be spoken softly like anything else. It’s not to repremand.
I hope that helps. If you have any further questions let me know. Sorry for the long run on explanation…its hard when typing in my phone to go back and correct without loosing what I’ve written lol.
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Just to add…I know you want your dog to hold a command. Once a dog understands phase 1 training and understands escape conditioning for phase 2…..its ok to start doing a little resistance training. This video shows it in a class with aggressive dogs but you would start off slow and where there are no distractions. The resistance helps them use their opposition reflex and helps them to hold the poistion. If the dog breaks the position you simply help the dog back into position repeating the command and then praise them when the go back. All you are looking for at first is 1 second of them staying when you use a little resistance then you immediately praise give love and sayvthe name and free them up. Start off slow and then you can build a duration. But as I said earlier it will all be easier if the dog understands a duration first in phase 1 for the particular command.
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Hi Zahed! It sounds like You’re doing great! Command structure is so important because it makes things so predictable for the dogs. You’re on such a good track it seems so I wanted to jump in and help tighten things up even more. The name is going to be a cue to the dog to pay attention….it lets them know any time you are about to tell them to do something different, you will say their name first. After we say their name we then tell the dog what we want it to do and give them a chance to do it. Assuming a dog has gone through phase 1 training for a particular command and is able to do such command on a variable reward schedule and for a duration….after we say the name and tell the dog what to do we wait and see if the dog does it. If the dog does not do it we will follow up with command and correction, leash pump, at the same time until the dog does it. Once the dog does it we mark with praise. As I said assuming the dog has gone through phase 1 training. After phase 1, you have to teach the dog escape conditioning. How to escape the correction, leash pump, so the dog isn’t confused when it does get one. Since any time we give a correction we say the command..which is to tell the dog why he’s being corrected I would refrain from using the command word with praise. Since ultimately you’re telling him good boy but using a word that is also used when being corrected. Good boy, sing to him, lots of love and affection anything else you want is ok. So it would look like…Kimba..sit you then give him the chance to sit….if he does it you give him lots of praise…if he doesn’t you can help him with leash pumps and repeat the word sit at the same time. When he does it you praise him. Now say you wabt to free him. That is something new. So you say his name and then free and encourage him out of position if need be. This way everythibg is predictable always.
Also when we do a heel we don’t do an automatic sit. If the dog does a perfect heel but then forgets to sit now he’s getting corrected instead of praise for doing a perfect heel. Also where we live it get cold, snow, rain, hot pavement…so if the dogs feel they need to sit every time it can be unfair at times. I don’t wabt to make my dog sit in uncomfortable conditions if he doesn’t want to if we arw going for a leisurely walk. Also sometime we may stop only for a moment at maybe a stop sign or street crossing and it would actually take more time to have the dog sit than I may want. Therefore if we want the dog to sit we will simply just give a sit command….same for the recall. We don’t do an automatic sit. But if we want we can always put the dog into a sit. Sometimes the sit although looks nice…isnt always real world practical. So it’s personal preference but that is how we tend to do it and how we teach it as well.
Make sure he knows whatever commands you are doing with him phase 1 first. If he’s having trouble holding a place or any command…make sure he first knows how to do it for a duration in phase 1. If he doesn’t this will help him when you are doing phase 2 and introducing a type of correction…leash pump. If in doubt, you will never do harm going backwards.
It sounds like you are doing fantastic! Keep up the great work and keep us posted! Also there is a command structure chart you can review as well on the site if you have any questions.
I appologize for any grammar or typographical errors as I am using my phone to respond! Lol
Hope this helps some!
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Hi Christine.
Make sure your leadership is 100 percent in check. No toys on the ground, no couch or beds, no acknowledging attempts for soliciting attention and make sure it’s 100 percent of the time. Not most times. A nip, IS a bite you’ve just gotten lucky so far and have not had a bad bite. Work on leadership and control. If you know you are having company they don’t even need to pet Mason. In fact have them ignore him. Make sure there is nothing around that Mason can feel conflict over. You should muzzle him and or manage the situation so this doesn’t keep happening. I wouldn’t even have him around the baby or other people when you are having company. You already know how he is going to react. Keep Working on a place command. Make sure you don’t bluff him though. You must follow through 100 percent of the time. Muzzle him if you know company is coming over and then if you are unable to keep him in a place command it’s better to crate him….even though you may not want to. You said you don’t want to have a bad bite and have to euthanize him. It’s better to manage the situation when people come over so he doesn’t even have the opportunity to make a mistake. Make sure the leadership is 100 percent in order all the time. No bluffing ….if you are unable to follow through with propper command structure don’t use formal commands. Work on all phases and make sure there’s no holes in the plan. Make a plan….make sure it makes sence and follow a routine. Set Mason up for success. If you know someone is coming prepare and have a plan. Waiting and hoping outsiders will act appropriately around Mason is not something to rely on. Assume everyone may do the wrong thing and prepare ahead of time with a preventative plan to keep him far away from trouble. Don’t underestimate the importance of 100 percent leadership all the time and management. It’s ok to manage the situation you are protecting Mason, yourself and your visitors. If you establish operations you won’t have to feel bad if you have to put him away when visitors come. Give him something he never gets but really likes and let him chill out somewhere where he doesn’t need to be stressed and worried. Keep working on it and keep us posted. -
Not at all Dave, this is all great communication. It’s good to brainstorm and bounce ideas off one another ?
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Hi Dave,
I should have been more specific but I was just jotting down quick thoughts. Mostly I was referring to leash laws. I think its important to be knowledgeable about your local laws regarding leashes and also where dogs are and are not allowed. We have to stress the importance and inform clients just because they may have learned off leash training doesn’t give them the free range to let their dogs off leash if there are laws against it. Also its important to only train in areas where dogs are permitted. In our area we have leash laws and many do not abide by them. Also there are many areas where dogs are not permitted but you see people in those areas with their dogs. We should be encouraging compliance with these types of local laws.