[Michael D'Abruzzo]

Judy,

Continue ignoring her if you can bear it or put her away until you get started on a place or even just a “climb” on her dog bed and she will naturally get tired and probably lie down if she has to stay on it.

Here’s that picture of her we took after the puppy class:

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

The spiteful dog is really a myth. It seems logical that the dog might be angry and pee to get back at us. That logic can certainly make sense and you can even read about that theory in old dog training books.

But, in reality I never knew a dog that would want to purposely cause us to be angry at them or have a “I’ll show you!…” attitude.

Seems like you are aware it is seperation anxiety problem. Some dogs have worse seperation anxiety when they can actually still hear or see their owner and can’t get to them.

Remember, anxiety is like a partially filled water baloon in your hand. You can squeeze it and keep pushing parts back in between your fingers, but the water filled balloon will keep popping out between other fingers. You can’t make it disappear – just like anxiety in the dog. It just comes out a different way.

Sounds to me like you did a good job housebreaking Eddie, but when his anxiety works up he can’t force him self to prevent the body’s natural tendency to expel anything unnecessary when under stress.

The proof to this theory is when you return and see the pee and the dog looks upset rather then “ha! ha! take that!” attitude.

I would start by first refreshing on your basics and make sure Eddie is cool with seperation when you are present (not all over you) then treat outings to the yard by yourself the same way you would treat leaving eddie home by himself when you go to work or how when the whole family leaves.

Test him with very short durations and try to give him something special that will last a while if he will care enough for it when stresses. If hes not caring for something special you will have to do the leaving the house for very short durations routine until he is cool enough to take that something special.

You can also trouble shoot by crating him and giving him something good to see if he will hold it in the crate when you are just outside.

This is just a suggested starting point to start troubleshooting from.
Keep us posted any other input on this from anyone is welcome.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

My first thought of troubleshooting would definitely be anxiety related here more than anything else. If she is screaching – that can definitely be at a level of anxiety that can cause her to have trouble keeping the urine in.

She will require patience without a doubt. I would find out if she spends her time present with the owner on her lap or with a hand attached to her – this can cause bad addictions that might cause anxiety at this level.

I have also encountered the rare case of dogs that will pee in a crate, to get out of it. Since, when the owner notices the pee the dog will come out so it can be cleaned.

If she is not having accidents out of the crate supervised with a person present – i would go with an anxiety plan first- and make sure all the underlying levels have been practiced.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

If you go to the protection videos there is an example titled “Nikko Gets Flanked”

It is basically when the agitator grabs a handful of skin from the upper/inner thigh of the dog.

It is supposed to be a ‘safe’ way to teach the dog that the agitator is bad and that there are real consequences for not driving him away before he gets too close.

There can be very bad side effects from doing this incorrectly or even correctly in the wrong situation or with the wrong dog.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

You have a good point. I never really work dogs that were not purposely bred to be defensive toward humans in that drive.

I love working the catch dog type breeds in protection because it gives them a great outlet. I think the dog sports are great for them. But, I have never worked any of them in anything but prey. Maybe made it a little rough cause they love it, but they know it is time for love as soon as the jacket comes off.

When you combine how capable some of these breeds are with the fact they are so heavily persecuted we have to be careful not to create the Godzillas that the media and those against these breeds would love to use as examples.

Any breed if it is confident enough is likely protect its owner if you taught it the motions through scenarios.

‘Flanking’ is a very debateable tactic that I have to question and discuss heavily with the agititators the pros and cons and if it is the right thing to do for that individual dog and situation. Video on Nikko in the members area is a good example.

It can potentially make a fearful dog more dangerous and to do it to a dog that totally trusts humans is a HUGE gamble for the future of that dog and the ethics of doing so should always be questioned.

I believe in bringing out the best in every dog, not making them something that they were not meant to be.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

I generally troubleshoot with the self help “triangle” first, starting down at the bottom – which means you would need a good history on the pup to start.

Look at health – urinary tract infection? incontenance?, etc.

was the pup housebroken properly? – does the pup rely on asking to go outside rather than on a schedule (get history from owner)

So much troubleshooting to do here since all kinds of things can cause the pup not to be used to holding it – like a dog door to the outside, pee pee pads, etc.

Could it be anxiety related? Is this dog prone to peeing because of anxiety?

Does the pup hold its urine supervised outside the crate? Does the pup pee in the crate when you are in the same room?

A big possibility is that the pup came from a pet store and learned early that peeing in the crate was ok and the only choice early on.

I can help with a plan with a bit history.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

I know…me and Earl were just fantasizing the other day about taking a trip out there. I would like to visit to see how dogs are housed, maintained, etc.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

Hi Rebekah,

Here is one place definitely worth looking into. http://www.kreativekennels.com
I haven’t ever dealt with them, but the bloodlines are awesome and they are breeding in this country.

I did have one client get their pup from here: http://www.kraftwerkk9.com and I LOVED it and he seemed to have a good experience dealing with the business.

Hope that is a good start for your research.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

general fear based aggression is really not all that hard if you have the support system set up.

1. need the right relationship to lead the dog
2. the obedience to enorce your leadership off-leash
3. a group of stable dogs thar are involved in a “muzzle park”.

“muzzle park” i set up like a regular dog park but all the dogs wear muzzles and all need to have completed off-leash training before we cut them loose together. Then we use the commands that we taught them to guide them through proper interaction. Fear based aggression disolves with regulars to these groups. at least once a week. The hard part is the patience to get the dog used to a comfortable basket muzzle and the time to teach the dog well off-leash obedience using a fair system.

I’ll post footage of this in action fairly soon and all the rules and exercises involved. For instance “normal aggression” is allowed. Abnormal and overly assertive aggression is not allowed.

I have to get back to a class but I’ll tell you what I do for within the pack. Not far off from what you are doing really – mostly concentrating on the triggers and reasons then polishing off with control and management. Not much that can’t be accomplished with patience.

Your 8 year old pit can benifit from some muzzle park filled with little guys! (along with some tug for restless spirit) We have one like him in our support group. keep me posted. Sounds like you like the challanges! thats good since so many trainers will turn their back on them.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

Two things you can try here.

The possible easy way would be to try a gentle leader or halti collar. Don’t really give him a chance to focus on the vehicle with a stationary stay. Instead keep moving – even if at a corner do a back track circle if a car is coming and reward with a treat as soon as he is aware of the vehicle and before he is lunging. Act extra happy as if this is a good thing. The gentle leader is good at turning the head so circle at the point before you think he will lunge and REWARD. If this seems to work check back with me. If there is a place you can practice where he sees more cars at a distance it is better. Than move him slowly to higher difficulty levels. Avoid the situations where he will fail.

If this doesn’t seem to work than it is best to keep him out of the situation until the formal training moves further along. When it comes to doing obedience around a problem area I like to teach the dogs like teaching a kid football. You don’t just throw the kid in the middle of a football game and teach him the rules on the fly. He will get destroyed. Instead we teach him the rules first, then do the pass paterns, scrimage, etc.
So we do the same thing with dog training when it comes to the problem areas. If not an easy fix lets start on teaching him exactly what we expect when we use the word “heel”. I am going to put some more vids on this soon. But the idea is to teach the pups in easy areas first exactly what it is before we practice around distractions. The only videos up on this now are the vids with Elu where I walk around the owner in the phase 2 obedience section. You do not want to do this unless your pups understand the phase 1 stuff first and the concept of “free”. It can be done with a gentle leader, but so far i only have videos using the martingale and the pinch collar, but it is used very similar with the same rules.

If you get your pups a martingale type collar and a gentle leader that would be the best way to get started and I’ll do what i can to guide you as the new videos trickle in.

Hope this helps for now! keep us posted. You can also start a blog here for us to follow along or put your own blog link in your signature with you can create in your forums options.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

My first thought would be to maybe take a slightly different route to the “spot” if possible and if not possible and either way head to the spot with some excitement – maybe even with a treat lure or toy to distract until you reach the “spot”. then, give your command to “better go now” and then definitely reward with a treat or the toy. If Donovan stops along the way to pee – if still possible scoop him up as quick as you can and bring him to where he can finish. If it is one specific spot that he has recently gotten into the habit of going you can become creative and lay something like a tarp, shower curtain, aluminum foil, etc over the spot to throw him off while you cruise past it. You can also put a harness or other safe collar (not any choker types) on him and just run or move very brisk to that spot with a purpose and act very happy – if he slows down to dead wait just keep the feet moving and keep praising so he cannot get comfortable to pee or poop until he gets there, so even if he tries it isnt as pleasant as if he goes to the bingo spot. If anything seems too stressfull for the dog or you back up and rethink the plan.

Dogs are creatures of habit so it is definitely easiest at this stage to take advantage of that and make it almost impossible for him to go anywhere else when he initially leaves the house except for that spot. If you find something that works stick with it for at least a month before you think of letting your guard down. Remember to give him that extra reason to go in the bingo spot by giving him a treat.

keep the posts coming to keep us updated. we’re in this together!

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

Hi Tony,

Good to have you and thanks for supporting the site. I’ll try to keep trickling in the info and vids. I handle dog on dog aggression differently depending on the type. Are you referring to within the home between two dogs of the same “pack’ or aggression toward all dogs, or some dogs? I have a pair at the kennel now that are here for fighting each other within the home that I may post some vid on, but I also do tons of generalized dog aggression toward allk dogs.

Post the situation and I’ll post what my general plan would be.

ps. do you have web site? feel free to create a signature that will be in your forum posts that will link to your site. I’m sure members and browsers would love to check it out if you do.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

You have to love the dog! I really has been the ideal dog for rehabbing dog aggressive dogs. I’ve been calling him the official “ice breaker dog”.

By the way, Hunkie is free at last! Got him in yesterday! Will post on blog soon.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

One of the trainers, Nate, actually has a little female “Sasha” we just started on. I actually agitate her after he does agitation on Nikko. I’m sure you’ll see her at some point.

[Michael D'Abruzzo]

Hey Eric,

You can have a double problem there.

First, you can have a traditional seperation anxiety problem going on if the dog is not used to being seperated in this way from you.

Second, the problem can be made harder if the dog feels vulnerable because he is tied.

You can fix half the problem if you had the option of putting the dog in a more open fenced in area or seperate room in the house, maybe even a crate if indoors and not out in the open.

If not an option or even if you do use one of these options, you may have to work on traditional seperation anxiety issues by following your standard leadership exercises (step 5 on the triangle) and following your step 8 (seperation anxiety drills). Get him used to wear ever you plan on seperated him on a daily basis for shorter durations and make it as positive as possible for him. Maybe feed him out there or give him a special treat that lasts a while only when he is in that place. Try to bring him back to you before he gets all worked up. Set him up for success and make the duration a little longer each time. This can take patience. Definitely make sure he is not all over you when you are physically with him. since seperation when you are not present is easier for the dog when he can deal with seperation first when you are physically available.

I hope this helps to start.

Thanks for the compliments on the site and vids. More to come. Just posted first phase 3 vid also a new protection video will be up by late tonight (my time).

I want to PM you soon to write about a few things. I’ll be in contact soon!

Sorry disappeared for a while. just finished a move and was out internet. Ready to roll again! Can’t wait to see your vid when ready!