Michael D'Abruzzo
Forum Replies Created
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I love this so much. Even though it is only a snapshot into her life, it is a reminder of what beautiful, emotional, and sentient beings our dogs are, and why we do what we do. Thank you Allie for being so generous with your intimate journey with her. We learned so much from you, Stormy ❤🧡💛💚💙💜🖤
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I broke the ice on this one and added notes directly to your document.
My biggest critiques have to do with the “name”.
The dog’s name will be worth listening to, but why? For the same reasons it is for us, but be careful not to add any specific behavior connected to the name or else it will greatly interfere with advanced training in the future.
So early in the training, it may be worth listening to because they will get a treat, but later on it may be worth listening to so they do not avoid something aversive. However, if they equate the name with some sort of action it can cause a dog to break a stay command when perhaps you are just trying to get their attention for another stationary position change. Sometimes such as in scent work or protection work you may even want a position change, but without the dog turning to even look at you.
Another critique is mainly about having too much instruction in a mini-lesson, but that should work itself out by separating marking, luring, fading, etc.. into different steps, and then the client doesn’t even realize that it is multiple lessons while you ensure perfection at each mini-lesson and transition to the next.
Thank you for posting!
This article is worthwhile:
https://dogtraining.world/knowledge-base/command-structure-chart
dogtraining.world
Command Structure Chart – DogTraining.World
Command Structure Chart – DogTraining.World
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I am also getting this issue only with the last video posted which seems to be because the youtube link was posted before the vldeo finished processing.
Is the stamp effect happening for other vldeos too? Thank you for helping troubleshoot.
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Thank you for letting me know. If I can know what browser you used, I can better troubleshoot. Sometimes the issues resolve on their own when I do regular software updates.
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This is a bug i have been working on since the website migration. For now the only accurate indication is the members tab.
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This has been so inspiring to watch the patience of both the trainer and owner! Great job @roseandbeau !
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Thanks for posting this case! I will give my advice and insight:
First, this lecture and the form (linked at the bottom of the lecture) especially is super helpful anytime anyone posts a case, even if you fill it out yourself. It helps all the members and myself to troubleshoot what is going on and saves lots of trouble for you answering background questions:
https://dogtraining.world/knowledge-base/collecting-client-information-5-0/
My take from the information about the case:
One of the great things about running free puppy classes for over a decade was watching all the trends of puppy play, especially as the puppies matured. This was invaluable in helping their owners make appropriate management and training plans for their individual dogs.
I don’t like the term, but in some puppy socialization group circles the behavior you are describing of “being too rough” during play is sometimes called being a “bully”. Usually when you get a dog that is described as being “too rough”, what I notice is that technically it is more accurate to say that the pup/dog does not respond or respect communication from the other dog that it is uncomfortable/doesn’t want to play anymore/etc.. With some dogs if the other dog doesn’t want to play as rough and resorts to acting defensively it can then trigger a fight from the “bully” that wont take no for an answer.
There are many ways to manage this with puppies, including only pairing those dogs with other pups that equally enjoy the rough play, “saving” the bullied dog by separating them before the other dog gets defensive and see if the “bullied” dog wants to return to the restrained “bully” dog, or pairing the rough dog with a clearly larger and stronger dog of balanced temperament that can discipline appropriately.
In the behavior course we learn about how pups USUSALLY respect much older dogs when their behavior is “normal”.Once we determine that a pups behavior isn’t in typical “normal” parameters for interaction, management plans need to immediately be considered while maximizing the quality of life and positive interaction of the dog. After a lot can be done with leadership and true obedience, mostly through a solid “leave it” command at least when supervised. Dogs will only be as well behaved in the presence of other dogs and humans as they are naturally or as they can be under the supervision of someone who is ready to enforce rules.
As a past owner of many bully breeds and working dutch/mal/German shepherds, some were naturally “normal” in their interaction and others were OK with me supervising, but some I never would trust unsupervised with other dogs. I had two American bulldogs (a male and female) that seemed to adore each other, but there was one times that my male locked on to the female for relatively minor incident (both were approaching a dropped treat at the same time), and I had to physically remove him, so I always separated them when I was not close by or not home after that… management.
Many bully breeds, American pit bulls in particular were definitely bred to have a limited “cut off” switch once they get into a confrontation, even if another dog is giving signals of surrender which is why, even with lots of protest, some doggy daycares and larger corporations like Petsmart make blanket policies to not accept them with fairly unskilled employees instead of evaluating each dog individually.
I am all for treating each dog on a case-by-case basis but always take note of ethology and possible trends.
So my short input to this case is:
– acceptance that the pup may have “abnormal” to a degree play interaction that may always need some supervision.
– solid leadership and providing affection/all needs on terms that take any worry away from the pup or motivation to self-advocate.
– Solid “leave it” command as a must to break habits of obtrusive behavior with the other dog/dogs and to diffuse all posturing related to guarding of owner or problem area.
– likely food/bones etc.. should have a good plan to prevent problems either through management or if owner wants to be fancy through control drills that communicate to the dogs to not confront the others around possessions.
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Definitely not an easy case. From an ethology point of view, we have a herding breed that is known to be territorial. So this is similar as if they had a jack russel terrier and are expecting family members to bring their guinea pigs over to run around with the dog. As a German Shepherd owner, I cannot think of any that I have owned that would be OK as adults with other dogs entering the home. It was always a process of acclimating new dogs that were going to live there.
For a consult with a case like this I usually educate about what is normal for the breed and especially the individual so that it leads to the correct attitude for them. For instance, if they believe this is “abnormal” aggression they are more likely to expect something not reasonable from the dog and think either the dog or whatever training plan is a failure or that quick fixes are possible.
So a big part of it is management plans even before the training. It can be expected for many dogs to NOT be ok with other dogs visiting their home.
If the dog is expected to get along SPECIFICALLY with certain dogs, then we need to look at each individual dog, their breed/temperaments, and then treat it as a dog on dog aggression case and look carefully at all of the triggers. For instance, simply being on the property could be a trigger, but then it can also be about resources on the property (other dogs near where the food/water bowls are, toys, resting places, etc…)
Dog on dog aggression cases within the home are one of the most complex cases you can deal with if the goal is to have new dogs loose together in a home without aggression. It is possible, but difficult without knowing the base of the coursework up to the leadership in the behavior course, then the dominance aggression and territorial aggression blueprints and phase 3 training if you wanted to offer anything that made this situation reasonably possible.
Of course sometimes we can lucky by allowing the dogs to spend time together muzzled completely off property and then bringing them back to the home together, but that very much relies on the dogs and not a larger plan that addresses all triggers and gives us tools to coach the dog to the correct behaviors.
It is usually easier to work on issues like these when the dogs live together permanently compared to “visiting”. It does make a difference to a dog when they think the other dogs are part of the household.
My cliff notes for a blueprint if the owners insisted on having dog visitors vs management would be:
1. Ethology – teach the behavior is normal for a herding breed
2. Attitude – make sure they have the correct attitude toward the dog. The behavior was valued when used as a working dog, so the dog is not trying to be “bad”.
3. management – train to muzzle, do not have dogs come over during the training process.
4. Major leadership consulting – the dog will need to feel it is natural for the owners to override their decisions to protect territory and also we need the dog to secondarily have less withing the home to be conflicted over as far as resources (no toys, food bowls, etc,, laying around… no competing for owners attention)
5. Phase 3 obedience so owners can verbally command “leave it” if dog is posturing toward the visiting dogs.
6. counterconditioning plan – coaching owners how to make the visit a good experience for the territorial dog.
7. Be prepared for fine-tuning the planning according to analyzing body language, triggers, etc.. during the process.
I hope this helps.
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Hi Marina,
The forums on this website are always private to the general public and the membership is designed for students and professionals to have a safe place to discuss cases. I would consider it ethical and comparable to when doctors, teachers, etc.. discuss their cases with colleagues in their own professional organizations. However, if you feel conflicted it is always good to discuss with a client that you are involved in a private discussion group with other professionals.
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I may be misunderstanding the details of your suggestion, but basically if the two dogs are getting along I would say there is no reason to separate them, because then at what point are we putting the two dogs back together if they were already getting along.
Often with dogs, we can create aggression between two dogs that have been getting along by separating them for an extended period of time because just by being together there is generally subtle reinforcement of whatever hierarchy has been established between the two.
So in a case like this I suggest further coaching to prevent future problems which would be similar plan to addressing the issue of concern.
Also, from a cynopraxic (and business) perspective we need be cautious of consulting a client and having them feel like we just reduced their and their dog’s quality of life.
For instance, I think at least two of my dogs would attack another dog if I just brought them into the household with no plan, but I am not necessarily going to separate my dogs from each other if there are no problems between them. I would treat that as a seperate issue. It sounds like there is no conflict between the two.
Of course I would need a history of what happened with the chihuahua and how the two get along to make any recommendations, but i definitely wouldn’t automatically separate two dogs that have no issues with each other.
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I am all for the philosophy of “it’s a problem if it is causing a problem,” and once you take two dogs that are not in kennels and separate them and put them in kennels, it is a step backward from a LIMA perspective, and can possibly cause behavior problems that are not there. But, I agree ideally, the dogs are not necessarily left completely unsupervised together if they are a reasonably new pairing.
Without further information, it is hard to know the exact nature of the relationship between the current dogs, but it should be noted that Akitas also are not necessarily high on the list for dogs that are dog visitor friendly as well.
Fortunately, a good plan that includes understanding dog dynamics, resources, etc… to manage potential issues with visitor dogs would also work as a preventative to deal with possible future issues between two female dogs living together.
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