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Finally replying back!
**DIRTY DOG FIXED!**
I was able to get the issue fixed with a different approach. Nothing from a urinalysis was needed, it was fixed behaviorally before I could get a sample done.
Thank you for all of the clarifying questions! And I did not know that about the kelp, I will keep it in mind for my toolbox, he is on kelp/Solid Gold SeaMeal and their Large Breed Puppy because he is a large dog and needs it to help keep his developing pasterns strong, among other supplements. He is being treated for worms and giardia, but this was an issue before he was being treated for that when he was testing clean from the breeder and after bringing him home initially. We live in the countryside so infected poo is everywhere, he is already hotbed parvo/distemper vaccinated. Also his crate overnight was in the living room, so he went from being tethered wherever I am sleeping (was initially the living room, to the bedroom) to sleeping in the crate in the living room with the other crated puppy.)
A few things were done to address this that helped. It might seem a bit drastic but it was what I determined was needed and asked several peers if any experience with this. I’ll try and just list them below – feel free to ask back anything:
– If he messed in the crate, I would take him out of the crate and essentially hold him down right there while I just toweled it up or cleaned it up then he went right back in. He did not get to go outside to potty. (I would later clean the crate properly after/during the regularly potty schedule interval). – This only happened twice after implementing, and today, actually, as a mere accident so the procedure was a little adjusted since he has improved and was obviously trying to avoid the mess instead of rolling in it/being oblivious.
– At regular potty schedule intervals, if he peed on the grass and did not have an accident, I would actually feed him a piece of cheese WHILE he was peeing (and he would eat and keep peeing lol). Then after a day or two of that I only fed him the cheese after fully voiding in the grass and not having an accident. Once he was consistent a few days, I switched to praise only (and after that it’s evident the relieving itself that is self-rewarding).
– I reduced his resulting ‘quick baths’ after messing to every couple of days instead of daily or after every accident. If he messed, he had to wear it a while.
– I changed the value of the crate. Any water, any food, any cooling after getting hot on a walk or from playing came from in the crate. He does not get any bones, chews, antlers, or anything else in this crate or he would mess for whatever reason. If he messed right before getting meals, point one went in effect and he had to essentially eat in a dirty crate if he wanted his meal. At this time, the only water available to him would be from in his crate.
– When he started going in happily/eagerly and speedily and cooperatively for his cooling, I would add a liver treat and not delay the presenting of his water pail. The water pail then was always in this particular crate, taken out at taking him out. If I was feeding him I would speedily give him the bowl for going in quickly.
– I worked toward generalizing the first Varikennel crate (needing to be covered with blankets and curtains or he would bark at visual tracking of me) which is his main day crate in the living room, to using a very small crate in the car with a water pail when traveling, to also crating in a large wire crate (also in the living room near his puppy friend in an Impact anxiety crate just so the house toddler can’t operate the latches) where he now gets a food bowl in occasionally, as well as a medium wire crate that is covered so he can sleep in the bedroom with me and the adult dogs again – he is a bit of a velcro dog and pack oriented. This is the only crate he gets a rawhide chew in at night and an antler, with a fuzzy tennis ball, and has recently upgraded to having a towel for three nights in a row as a bed. He does not get water in this crate unless I think he absolutely might need it or wake me up for water, and will only give him about an inch. Otherwise he has water available to him all day in his crate or wherever he is. The bedroom crate will be upgraded to the large wire crate instead when the size calls for it.
– Every crate I had ready and prepared putting them on top of extra large puppy pads, having towels, cleaners and other supplies at the ready for quick and easy clean up to just hold him while wiping up before putting him straight back in. I had nothing in the crates themselves. No beds, no towels, no puppy pads, no bones or chews.
– I am now adjusting the times gradually, and both puppies are able to have their last potty breaks and go to bed as early as 10:30pm (or as late as 12:30am), and sleep all night until 7am, sometimes almost 8a. I am playing with the times so I can wake them up before they wake me up to hopefully not develop a habit of crying at waking up and wanting to come out of the crate but hopefully wait for the adult pack (humans and dogs) to wake up. This is working well.
This was actually fixed within about two days doing it this way, and I have kept everything as is just in case but we are going on 3 weeks I think from when I posted this of keeping his crate clean – except for a day or two where I was unfortunately prevented from going home and the puppies were not able to be let out during the entire workday so they ended up not being able to hold it (poor pups!) but we were able to recover right away, even with that.
The rest is usual management to maintain the taking out to the grass to potty on the schedule.
I did contact the breeder who did not practice good breeder management and made some suggestions that I hope she will implement to help make transitions for velcro puppies easier and potty training for families more straightfoward. The puppy also was struggling with some separation anxiety because it wasn’t weaned from the pack, wasn’t exposed to crating, nor learned crating with a litter mate or two by six weeks and then able to spend at least 3 days in the crate alone before going home is a disservice to them and the families in my opinion. Also using rugs and carpets as the substrate makes potty training extremely difficult to break the habit since he is looking for that tactile feeling. Straw is best for puppies to prevent this is my belief.
If this hadn’t worked, I was going to try filling the crate with straw and keeping him on/in that for a while, and then taking it out after him getting used to going on straw and grass only, and taking it out of the crate to hopefully change the tactile association along with everything else. I’ll add that to my rainy day back pocket for the future maybe.
Thanks everyone!
