Dog Training World › Forums › Obedience Training › General Obedience Training Discussion › Killing drives with obedience? › Reply To: Killing drives with obedience?
Judy B.MemberSeptember 21, 2017 at 6:22 am2980
It is very important the dog has a thorough understanding of what you want from them before you start correcting the dog. A dog should NEVER need hard corrections at 10 weeks or 10 years in phase 2 in order for it to listen no matter what kind if dog it is. If someone feels this is needed something is missing and we need to go back and re evaluate. There are more respectful less forceful ways without using dated methods of the past. This is why we break training down in different phases. Phase 1 not only consist of teaching the dog a command…sit, down, come…etc….it consists of other things as well such as an interval reward schedule, a duration, variable reward schedule, premack principal…it is important that the dog and owner understand all of these steps and all the components are taught patiently. Correction should not be introduced unless every component is understood by the dog otherwise we are being unfair. Just because we can teach a dog a command doesn’t mean it understand the rest of the components. Then when the dog is able to do a command in phase 1 and is able to do it for some type of duration and on a variable reward schedule and we want to start phase 2, we must not forget to still use what we learned in phase 1. There should never be a need for hard corrections. Especially on 10 week old pup. We don’t want to cause side effects. Problems can be harder to fix later instead of preventing problems now. I know some of our trainers on here can attest to that. We want our dogs to do thing for us because they want to more then because they are being forced to….then we can teach them to do things not only because they have to but because it is good to. This is all a process. Once a dog understand all components in phase 1 and we start introducing phase 2 we again must teach them starting with the escape conditioning. We must be able to recognise why the dog is doing certain things….is the dog confused, does the dog just not want to do it…does the dog not want to do it because it doesn’t fully understand why it’s good to do it…is the dog just being bossy….we need to be our dogs most patient teachers. Can you move quickly with a dog, yes but only when steps are not skipped. Anything new should be taught in a “teaching envirinment” we need to set them up for success and make sure they understand before moving to more difficult things. If when you walk away from your dog and it gets up you may want to go back and work on phase 1 and make sure your dog knows how to do a duration for a variable reward. And slowly start teaching and creating distance. If your dog does know each component in phase 1 and you have moved on to phase 2 you still want to teach and slowly create distance. In all of our classes , puppy, obedience, scent detection, some urban agility we occasionally do, and protection classes you will never see a need for anyone to give hard corrections. It’s unnecessary. As for agility you want the dog to want to work. You want it to be enjoyable and you want the dog to willing want to do it. Obedience is for control. For anything we want the dog to work for we don’t necessarily need to correct them if we teach them why it’s good. When we do scent detection we don’t correct the dogs. We want the dogs to want to work and be motivated to and we use premack principal. Premack principal is very powerful. For example if we want the dog to sit at a scent source we may prompt the dog initially and tell the dog sit and reward the dog. But this is after the dog learns it gets rewarded at the source. The dog already knows sit….if the reward is of high value to the dog the dog will eventually sit if it wants it bad enough. Then you build…we never need to correct when doing actual scent work….control before or after is different but not during. Same concept goes for agility. If a dog has the natural drive to do something it will want to do it. Why correct if we don’t have to. Why skip ahead if we can teach the process in a more thorough way. There is a checklist to follow to make sure no steps are skipped with obedience. Skipping steps causes side effects that will later need to be addressed and may cause a dog to end up getting more corrections than needed. There is also a video that teaches leash pumps. More than pumps are never needed in phase 2 to teach a dog punishment/correction. If we are patient and consistent the dog will have a much smoother less stressful and more enjoyable training process. We never want our dogs to associate anything of force from us. We always want to respect and teach. You are already using premack principle and love with your dog so im sure you see how powerful it can be. Set the dog up for success before making tasks more difficult for them. Slowly teach what you want the dog to learn. If distance is what your aiming for at this stage….build it slowly starting with short durations and continue to use premack and variable rewards. When the dog can do a duration you can build from there. You can not go wrong taking your time in phase 1. The more you do in phase 1 and the farther you get in that phase alone the better for you and your dog.you mentioned you did too much “repetition” with your other dog….repition is good when done in such a way that you are using all components to phase 1. Then you build and reach from there. Always refer to the checklist so you know just where the dog is at for each command. If you have any questions or need any help let is know. You sound like you are on the right track using love and premack principle ….dig a little deeper into phase 1 because I promise you will not go wrong taking your time with your puppy.