YvonneGlen
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I figured it was her coming “into her own” but wondered if her being intact had any connection as well?? When we do go to the beach alone (with no intention of meeting up with the other GS) I always make it a point to make sure she is on her own and playing with me because she does not do well with the juvenile dogs… as you know they have a totally different mindset. When it’s just us, she pays no mind to other dogs or people. She is totally focused on me and playing fetch, which is how it should be anyway. I will bring the swim toy because she loves fetching in the water, but it’s either the ball or the swim toy, it’s never both. I should have mentioned that in my prior post. Oh and they are my toys, not hers!! 🙂 😉 One thing I learned when I first started listening to Mike’s video…and learning about his technique. This is my 6th GS so I’m pretty familiar with their wiring but always like to learn as much as I can about dog behavior, as I find it fascinating. The more educated a handler/owner is, the better success the human and dog have together.
I do have one other comment … while doing my research on why not to spay I came across this study. It’s not recent (2009) but it caught my eye… This is my second female (usually I have males) and the last female I had I was much younger and did not do my due diligence on researching the effects of spaying and just took the vets’s advice and had my GS spayed after her first heat and did not think twice about my decision (of course that was when I was child-free too). We usually waited with our males. But once I became more knowledgeable I started to question why should do I have to desex my dog? What are the benefits?
Anyway don’t want to get into too many details but our last GS, who was a male. He was the only male that survived out four males that were stillborn in the liter. Only the females survived. Right there should have been warnings flags for me that something genetically was wrong with the males but I was so determined to get my “moose male”. Once puppy hood ended, we also found out that he had an heart issue as well, along with a host of allergies. It was one problem after another with him. We had him fixed at a clinic (which I normally never do). They did an absolute horrendous, hack job (his testicles filled up with blood like the size of grapefruits…it was horrible for him and our family), he was not right after the surgery … seemed completely off, became unpredictable (it was a heartbreaking experience with Bacchus, something that I had never experienced as a person who grew up with GS her entire life …. Mike knows the entire story and to this day I am still heartbroken over his loss).
To get back to my concern about why I want to keep our female intact is partly because of this article I read several months ago, it’s keeps nagging at me. I asked my vet about it but she did not have an answer and was of no help. There was a study done with MWD in Korea where half the females (GS) were intact and the other half were not … They found that the females that were not intact anymore became moire reactive? Do you know of any other studies that support this? I looked and looked and can’t seem to find anymore on GS becoming more reactive once desexed.
Here is the article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/sophia-yin/does-spaying-or-neutering_b_272030.html What’s your thought on this?
The last thing I want is for our female’s temperament to change because of her not being intact. She so compliant now and knows “her place” in our family, although with my 6 y.o. that is a work in progress, as she does not listen to him yet … which gets him quite annoyed … LOL But with have two young children who bring friend’s over (of course when they come over she is either crated depending upon on the child, some children know Ziya and feel comfortable with her not being crated, under my control at all times, while others just show fear and Ziya senses it, so I crate her for the safety of everyone.
Have you ever experienced female GS becoming more reactive once desexed? It does make sense, as a woman myself, the hormones that we produce are needed to balance us out on a daily basis. Think about it, when woman goes through menopause, some go on hormone therapy to regulate their system and this is a gradual process. With a female one day she is producing all these hormones and the next day, she is not because her ovaries and uterus are now gone … I think if we were to get a full out hysterectomy our hormones along with our physical and mental state would change too without some kind of meds to balance us out … I know where talking humans vs. dogs and woman cycles are much different to a female cycle but the premise is still the same?
Would love to know your thoughts on that.. Thanks so much.. 🙂 (sorry for the length of my post)
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Hi Judy, My Ziya will be turning two on February 20 and is still intact. I honestly don’t know if I am going to get her spayed after two or not. I am still on the fence about it. My contract with the breeder says I have to wait until she had had two heats or turned two whichever comes first. She has had two heats already and I am waiting for her next one.
She is very compliant and don’t have any major issues with her. But I have noticed that she is becoming more assertive with other dogs (when we go to Playland Dog Beach) even some males, telling them that she does not want to be bothered by her body language and her barking at times.
What I am trying to ascertain is, is it because she is coming into her own, turning two soon or is it because she is still intact? Or both? We have a GS group made up of five GS (including Ziya) three out of the five are females. Ziya knows two of the females from when she was a pup. One of those GS is ‘her buddy” and they love playing and sparring together. Get along really well with one another.The other female GS used to bully Ziya when she was a pup. I would remove her from the situation as I never wanted to Ziya to have a bad experience. Ziya would play with her at times but in the end, this other GS would become too rough and I did not want Ziya involved in such play because it can quickly escalate. I have had numerous conversions with the handler/owner being brutally honest, telling her that people tend to leave (those others with GS) when she arrives because her GS charges at other dogs, in an effort to play but also I think … to display dominance, which she never corrected … only halfheartedly .
Anyway there has been a change in temperament with Ziya now and this other female (quite honestly even some male dogs too) which I would not expect since it was a male and not another female. They never got in any kind of altercation (as I am very strict with Ziya and make sure to monitor her 100% when at the beach) so I don’t know why the change with this one specific dog?
But it seems roles have reversed now and Ziya is showing dominance over this other female GS? We were all at the beach other other day and this once bully GS (who is a beautiful black-jet GS) did not want to be near Ziya in any way or wanted anything to do with her. She actually left her handler and tried to leave the beach which surprised us all. Ziya was vocal with her and her body language said to me that she is now showing this other female that she is not afraid of her but always wanting to play too. I watched her intently as she interacted with this female and saw behavior from Ziya that was a play bow with her barking with this GS, to charging at her showing dominance which I quickly corrected. I do not tolerate such behavior from Ziya, when she does do it. Normally she just wants to swim and get the ball and does not really pay any mind to other dogs when I bring the swim toy. She does not exhibit this behavior to the two other females who are much bigger than her …
Is it because she is still intact? Is it because she is finally maturing? Or both? Can it be she has a “puppy imprint” from this specific dog from her past experience of her being too rough? She does not display this type of behavior with the other two female GS, and neither I, or the owner of this dog can figure out why the change all of the sudden.
Any thoughts on this would be great.
Thanks.
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So I did end up going to the beach one last time … and definitely see a difference in Ziya.. I decided at the second part of our day at the beach to take away the beach toy. She is so besotted with that beach toy. After I told her “game over” she did nothing but follow me and the children around.
Do you think some GSD can break the mold and do well in dog park setting? While I was there on Sunday, there were three other GSD. Loki (HUGE male from a breeder named Stephen Patch) a female (also very BIG for a female, who made Ziya look like a miniature GS LOL) her name was Sonic, and her other pal/”freneny” Jenna (Eastern Line). Loki is intact, the other two females are not. None seem to be bothered by the other lab/newfies/leonbergers/goldens and just went with the flow playing with other dogs.
This is the first GSD that I have had (6 in total) that has ever been trained off-leash. So I’m really excited to be able to bring her everywhere with me and am so proud of what we accomplished together. I know when she is not comfortable and take her out of the situation immediately and am wondering if it’s just a maturity issue coupled with her not being fixed or if she is just going to be one of these GS who just would like be with her “humans” and bypass the beach all together because after all, she is a GSD and we cannot change who they genetic makeup. From the looks of it and her temperament I am beginning to think it’s going to be the latter.
Maybe I will try once again once she is spayed??
Here is a video that I find interesting … Would love your take of Ziya and her interaction. I threw my novice two cents in on what I see happening … on my timeline: https://www.facebook.com/yvonne.gasperino/videos/vb.1089444084/10208531036888631/?type=2&theater
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Thank you Mike for that. Definitely makes a lot of sense. “Her toys” are not hers, they are all mine. All the dog toys are kept in a bag for when we go out to play and the ones at home are put away in a box that she cannot get to. Once I put on her collar and grab the bag she knows where she is going and is fully engaged.
She is definitely going to her spayed. I wanted to make sure she went through two heats and she is fully grown. She has an upcoming visit and that is when we will determine if she is ready or not. Her paws look too big for her body still and I think she still has some growing to do but I could be completely wrong. I will leave that up to the vet. Her vet is not one of these nazi-vets where they tell their clients you have to get your dog altered/spayed before they turn one years old. She is a firm believer in letting a dog fully mature before you get them altered/spayed. Once she feels the dogs are fully grown she then leaves it up to the owner’s discretion. But I have also been reading some studies with GSD (females) who get spayed actually become more reactive … which now has my wheel spinning.. But there are so many variables with these studies I have no idea what to believe anymore.
So she is coming into her own. I figured that was the case (changes that I am seeing) and as you know (because of Bacchus) I am super-sensitive. I was second-guessing myself about her behavior. Shame on me.
Thank you for bringing that back to the forefront of my mind … that her behavior is normal and expected. I think other people’s perception and them not being aware of what is normal with their dog vs. what is normal GSD behavior, was making me second guess Ziya, which I should not have done.
Question is … do you still think she be able to play with her GS pal after she is fully matured?
They have known each other since they were puppies. She also seems to gravitate to playing with GSD, which is fine by me.. Which sounds silly because I don’t think dogs gravitate to their “own breed” do they? I’m not an animal behaviorist by any means but I don’t think a dogs can distinguish from other breeds right? I would assume dogs put other dogs in the same category, despite the diversity of breeds. Once the olfactory investigation is completed by both… LOL O<span style=”line-height: 1.5;”>r am I completely off-base?</span>
Ziya is only my second female GS. The last one was years ago. I can’t remember her behavior before and after her getting spayed. But we always had two GSD together, so they always played with each other. We only leashed walked them. Plus “dog parks” were not around back then. I sometimes think people forget their dogs are NOT human and are in fact DOGS and still ACT like DOGS… LOL .. Some seem to forget this when they go to Playland Beach (which will be closed for dogs tomorrow … )
Thank you once again for your expertise. Have a great weekend..
We are off to Playland Beach … kids love playing with Ziya in the water..
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I know this is old post but that second video is absolutey horrible and so inhumane. I do have to ask a question though. A trainer whom I was considering a while back said something about “hanging a dog out to dry”. What does that mean? Does it mean what I think it does? Picking him up from the ruff of his neck and hanging him by it? Do some trainers actually do this? If so, it’s a barbaric technique.
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As you can see from my very late reply I don’t get on much but thank you for taking the time to read my post about our one year anniversary! I have a real passion for Michael’s concept (FSDT) and would like to take it further but don’t know if I have the confidence to do so … maybe one day.