[Kim James]

I’d say your on the money there mate… my training dog Ghost has started to do the same thing when he sees large body of troops marching around stand off and alert barks short sharp barks. Its slightly fear related but thats a normal expectation i have from him. I’ve let him off lead to go and investigate a few times and he just runs up and mingles between the troops trying to ruck heavy its pretty funny, but it gives them some moral too…yeah I’d say he’s just learning the ropes.

I guess theres options out there…..you could go down the desensitising/counter conditioning road if it was really an issue for you but again thats something you need to consider from a holistic stand point i believe.

I’ll put the video of Ghost getting nervy when a group of troops walk passed the kennels and when i release him he runs up to them to see where there going? and there all like “oh wow a puppy” (enter whistles, pats, and kisses) and he just tears off as if its nothing. i guess when i think about it now thats a counter conditioning moment right there 🙂 considering i want him comfortable around troop movement.

 

[Kim James]

Hey mate not pro advice here but that looks like alert bark, there’s nothing wrong with that….he’s just letting you know someone is cruising by your space, to stop that would involve you taking him out of that situation so maybe keep him closer to you and not free roam on a long lead out front. In other words not allowing him to get visuals on the target per say, or if you get eyes on first reinforce reassurance….Catch the behaviour early enough to engage his attention onto you and redirect that energy. Obviously your not going to get it everytime but definatley try and refocus his attention may work…… looks like a gem of a pup anyway!!! No one is going to steal your tools thats for sure

 

[Kim James]

Hey Maria,

from the knowledge base…

https://www.dogtraining.world/knowledge-base/clear-headed/

This may help shape your thinking towards solutions for Navy’s instincts.

If you can anticipate these moments in time or notice any lead up behaviours, try and redirect navy’s focus essentially to protect navy from “himself”.

The general rules for safety for my dogs are to do what i can to prevent the dog from :

injuring themselves.

injuring another dog or person.

and to prevent them from escaping and becoming lost.

 

Hope this helps mate 🙂

 

Kim

 

Clear Headed

[Kim James]

Mate i’d say the dog is just figuring it out, and has a healthy appreciation for direct eye contact which can obviously be a confronting behaviourism.

Don’t stress… he’s learning would be my call.

Its great that your awareness is so fine tuned just don’t let anything from you be a cue to him that something weird is going on, maybe in the future if you anticipate that reaction is about to occur engage with that particular person or thing (in a welcoming way) just before to provide a level of assurance that the situation is all good and there is no need for fear.

Great subjects Dave I’ve been following along and you’ve raised some great questions and conversations in the forums!

Cheers

[Kim James]

Hi Dave but I thought I’d share from experience…..

Defiantly Agree with Mike and Judy, food for thought also is depending on the dogs fitness level, breed, situation and acclimatisation period.

Specifically for MWD’s, CAD’s, EDD’s and SAR Dogs, here is some info from a 3 day hands on course i recently completed called TCCC (tactical care of the canine casualty) through http://www.k9hardcase.com, the instructors advocated strongly Rapid cooling for heat injuries coupled with fluid intervention should the dog be suffering from a heat injury, when heat stress signs are first apparent they are subtle to most but easily recognisable, shade seeking, distracted, tongue lolled out to the side, puff eyes, intense heavy breathing, mouth wide open teeth exposed…ect  these are the first signs that you as the handler need to identify early and rest the dog.

Obviously in the shade somewhere cool, give small drinks, beyond that the dogs health can go from anywhere to having immediate severe diarrhoea (straight up heat injury), to drunkedness/ listless, cardiac arrest.

The big take away from the course was core body temp which relates to heat stress then heat injury are totally independent from dog to dog and there is no actual definitive core temp range that you should abide by as the guidelines are mostly inaccurate, this is because of the differences in dogs through breed, fitness level, work rate, the list goes on in variables….the best advice was (get data) measure the dogs temp prior to training, at rest. Then measure it during the activity, then after the activity. Note any changes in behaviour that relate to heat stress, that will give you a figure you can work off as well as looking for earlier signs.

For instance my English Springer completed a 600m route search, measured core temp prior to task in his kennel 39* celsius, the day temp and humidity was 32* and 92% humidity Darwin wet season(think super tropical sauna), during the task measured core temp again  he was 43*, shade seeking, puffy eyes, wide mouth breathing, but still searching relentlessly we completed task in a time of 55min, rested 4 times throughout for between 3-7mins this includes shade and water and core temp measurements. measured temp on completion and he was 44*, we rapid cooled him in the shade in a kids bath filled with water and his temp dropped 3* in around 7-8min. the physical changes for him were immediate no puffy eyes, breathing slowed, and his physical recovery was amazing as he was ready to go again 2 hours later.

Another team completed the same task, same time/atmospherics this time with a Kelpie (2 years older) measured prior to task 40*, during task 42* similar rest periods however minimal heat stress indicators because the dog took care of itself, worked at a steady pace the whole way through task time was 1hour and 10mins, measured core temp at end of task 42*, the dog maintained self preservation, again we rapid cooled the kelpie in the same manner temp dropped to 41* in around the same time as the springer and was keen to go after 2 hours, the springer was faster but the draw back was temp increased fast and caused changes which i had to be aware of and maintain, the kelpie just cruised along but spent longer on the task which has other implications.

We are taught at rest a dogs temp is between 38-39.5*, so technically both dogs were suffering from heat stress just sitting in their kennel. but did not show any signs.

These examples are of very athletic EDD’s, who train daily, PT daily, who now eat a very healthy balanced diet specific to their requirements and performances which have been measured individually in terms of output.

Hope this is of some help mate. hit me up if you have any other heat related stuff i work with it and in it everyday.

 

 

[Kim James]

Hey Dave,

I’ve limited exposure with e collars, but i have heard of over stim issues related primarily to poor contact points due to fitting, flexing, range and or hair.

There is a chance of Desensitisation due to it being fitted on the same place every time too. Although I don’t think this is the case with you.

Where i work we are not permitted to use them atm, the laws vary from state to state but until further knowledge is gained and permission granted we can’t touch them, however there was a time when we used non stim communication (vibration mode).

It defiantly sounds like the e collar is inconsistent.

Theres a few guys I know that are running these (see link) and they are pretty Gucci (price wise), although the martin collars are also quite reputable too.

https://www.bartbellonshop.com/bartbellon/all-about-chameleon/

Hope this info helps mate 🙂

All the best

Kim

 

[Kim James]

Hey Dana ,

Defiantly 100% welfare of the animals first and foremost is the objective (so well done on reaching out), which in this case is protection of Jake, as you say will not defend himself against the aggression from Brody due to his differences.

Leadership exercises on your behalf found here https://www.dogtraining.world/start-self-help/leadership/ will definitely aid best practise to help both dogs in this regard (check it out for your information), defiantly take ownership of the situation (which you have done) in which both dogs are in the same presence of one another.

Is it worth the risk of not having Brody muzzled around Jake? IMO No defiantly not,  I’d like to know the situations in which these aggressive instances are taking place, is this dominance aggression? is it resource guarding? is it territorial aggression? Then When and hows usually explain the whys….so to answer definitively your question ““will the muzzle cause Brody to become more aggressive or possibly less aggressive?” taking into account the breadth of information i would say will the muzzle prevent Brody inflicting injuries to Jake should they encounter one another in the future? YES ….and therefore protect Jake from the severity of these attacks?… YES. 

Is that more important than possibly making Brody more aggressive at that moment…. ABSOLUTELY YES…

This will obviously lead into being more cost effective for you with regards to Vet care.

Its great that your looking to mitigate these outburst in the future, As you have said you are looking to keep them separated which is a great start.

Using a muzzle is not a bad thing, it is protecting the dog from injuring people, other dogs and themselves.

FYI Dana there has to be over 100 years worth of Handler/Trainer experience including all the trainee’s and trainers here at K9-1 plus a gold mine worth of info found in the knowledge base section as well as the forums of past and present so stay positive, and keep us posted.

Leadership

[Kim James]

Hey Dave that could be a bit of barrier frustration in there too, really looks like he wants to engage for sure, I guess thats how I’ve seen Ghost act on leash in a similar situation and thought you know what Im going to let you get it out of your system and engage and experience (the experience being boring compared to me with a tennis ball), the difference is Ghost is a boarder collie cross and your dog is BMC both High drive animals but slightly different drive tendencies, so letting Ace of leash to engage may not be appropriate at the store.

 

Im just spit balling here but maybe set up a controlled scenario with less distractions in a field or open area and have someone familiar approach from a distance, far enough so that Ace can see but can’t identify,(it’d be good to know the distance he starts grumbling and growling) let him out of the truck have the person casually continue walking and fully ignore him completely even if he jumps up and demands attention, recall then praise. if he fails to recall have the person turn and slowly walk towards the truck to close the gap and entice him to obey the command, reward and praise when he comes.

I guess after all he’s a pup and wants to socialise and engage, most probably has tons of energy he wants to dump at any given opportunity. can i ask is this type of behaviour happening first thing in the morning or after a busy day? Id just like to know what his energy levels are when this type of stuff is going on.

 

Cheers for the video Dave can’t believe how big he is already!!!

[Kim James]

Hello Maria,

Glad to help 🙂

Great advice from Davis 100% echo his thoughts.

A lot to take in at first, take your time with this one there is no rush.

Definitely play out the scenarios in your mind that your going to put him in, before you actually put him in them just to make sure its not beyond his reach.

For instance, you know that when the workers are outside and he is there with you that its hard for him to remain focused on you.

You can now use that as his threshold.

Do you want to test his threshold now? probably not. You really want to set him up for success.

Absolutely take notes and keep a little diary. Little things will surprise you when you sit back and review the days.

Now to be fair to the dog for its safety, yours and the workers. I agree with Davis you may need to implement some control measures.

Remember these workers are on his “turf” .

But also his turf is “YOUR” turf so he needs to understand and respect that fact,  and this is where the leadership piece comes in.

Have a read of this..

https://www.dogtraining.world/start-self-help/leadership/

I believe Navy is in good hands, I admire you very much for taking on the responsibility and effort to help Navy through these times. Well done to you !!!   🙂

Leadership