Daria Rylkova
Forum Replies Created
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Hi Yossi,
What situation will your dog comply with “leave it?” Which objects will she leave alone? Where on the obedience check list are you with leave it? If you have a video of you working on leave it, we can offer some more detailed advice. Here is the obedience check list for “sit” through phase 2. At the bottom, there is a downloadable check list that you can fill out for all commands. Have you started on phase 2 for any of the other commands?https://dogtraining.world/knowledge-base/obedience-chart/
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very interesting article! i’ll add it to the knowledge base. Is Navy being treated for pain?
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I’m so sorry to hear that! Sounds like a very difficult situation, just handling Navy’s behavioral problems.
Are you able to confine your dogs such that they aren’t ever loose together and to make sure that Navy isn’t ever loose unsupervised? When he isn’t crated, is it possible to keep him on leash and muzzled?
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Such a great study! Shows how much you can do in training or just interacting with your dog by modulating your tone. Same goes for modulating your energy level or using different sounds eg hup hup vs sloooow to a get a dog to hurry up or slow down. True for other animals too 🙂
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Something that confuses me is that I’ve heard several clicker trainers say that a marker word or click has to be followed by a primary reinforcer 100% of the time or it loses its strength as a secondary reinforcer. As far as I understand, accordingly, praise and marker words would be separate and a marker word would not be followed by praise alone, unless praise is a primary reinforcer for that dog.
So you could have separate sessions where you pair physical/verbal praise with food or during early training of a behavior you would have:
cue-> behavior -> marker -> food
cue-> behavior -> marker -> praise ->foodonce the behavior is learned, the cue itself should be a conditioned reinforcer.
During later training/practice you would vary the reward schedule by
cue-> behavior -> praise
cue-> behavior -> marker -> food
cue-> behavior -> cue ->behavior ->marker ->foodI’ve heard this from people who use a click as a release and from someone who uses a click as a duration marker and verbal release. If you interchangeably use a verbal duration marker as praise (eg “good”), does the duration marker lose some of its ability to shape a new behavior? Does it make a difference in the real world? Seems like many variations work 🙂
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I’m confused about why it’s necessary to repeat the cue/command at the same time as the correction, once the dog has already gone through escape training to learn how to turn the correction off. I was also wondering about the optimal timing of the command relative to the correction. Should the verbal command be given simultaneously as the correction, slightly follow the correction or precede it (see attachment)? Does repeating the command at the time of the correction increase compliance for the command alone in the future?[attachment file=”22528″]
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I’m using a mini educator e-collar and having trouble identifying the minimum level that my dog can feel. I can detect a momentary stim on level 6-10 depending on where I put the collar. She is a shep husky mix and has a very dense undercoat around her neck. I’ve tried moving the collar around and even switched out the normal length contacts for the 3/4 inch ones, but don’t see a response as I go all the way up to level 30/100 indoors. I’m worried that if I start off at a high level that she can barely feel, that her collar will shift to where it’s much more painful. Are some collars or contacts better than others for dense undercoats?
In the mean time, I’ve been training her with the vibration stim. Under low to moderate distraction, the vibration is pretty aversive- more than what I would want to see as a reaction to an electrical stim. She very quickly picked up how to escape the vibration stim, and her already decent recall, is getting better after a few days of practicing at the park with a long line. However, she has no problem blowing off the vibration if she’s already chasing/treeing a squirrel. So it seems like the vibration is too aversive as a correction for most situations, but not aversive enough once she’s already mid hunt.
Would really appreciate some advice!
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Hi Yossi,
In general, “leave it” should mean to disengage with something or someone forever or until released to that object. Since your dog is 7 months old, she’s going through adolescence, and will be having more trouble with impulse control in general for the next 1-1.5 years. So make sure to have lots of patience and be consistent :-). While you are teaching her the fantastic consequences of complying with the cues you’re teaching, as well as the negative consequences of not complying, make sure that you are as much as possible, managing her to prevent her from practicing these behaviors. This means being very aware of the environment and keeping a short enough leash to prevent her from being able to get to objects, you would like her to avoid. Keep in mind, that later on, you will also be able to use other cues on walks for the purpose of having her leave things alone. For example, you can also use the “heel” cue or ask her to “come” to you. By high distraction environment, I mean outdoors or even indoors, if there are other people and animals.
I start off teaching “leave it” slightly differently from the video. Both work though. I don’t use the food I’m asking the dog to leave alone, as a reward. Later, when the dog starts to understand the concept of “leave it,” I will occasionally mark + reward/praise for leaving the object alone, and then release to the object. Here are some videos I made for a client, working with a Shiba Inu.
In the first sessions, I only focus on the concept of being rewarded for disengaging, and don’t introduce the cue “leave it” until the dog is reliably performing this behavior with food left in my hand and on the floor. I start off by using a low value food (kibble) to disengage with, and reward with a high value food (meat). I later move to leaving alone higher value food and objects. Here, I’m using a clicker to mark the behavior, but you can also just use a verbal marker. Once she understands the task, I use both the clicker and verbal marker/praise. I think that if you teach it this way, you’re less likely to end up needing to repeat the cue multiple times.
Once I introduce the cue, I’m also initially marking and rewarding for short durations. I then mark and reward at intervals, while the food remains on the ground and introduce the release word in the leave it context. I don’t release to what I’m asking the dog to leave alone, often. I’m just using a leash to prevent her from getting to the food, not for corrections. You can then do this with different objects, toys, people. When you’re certain that she understands the concept of leave it, you would start to teach phase 2 leave it – meaning how to escape and avoid a correction and the meaning of NO. Let me know if you have any questions or would like me to look at a video.
Step 1 (hand)
Step 2 (floor)
Introducing the Cue
Rewarding at Intervals (sorry about the angle)
Introducing a release
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Hi Yossi,
If you’re at home, and you say “leave it” and then toss a toy or a piece of food, would she leave it alone? If not, she may not understand leave it, in low distraction environments, to the extent that would be needed, for you to expect for her to understand it in higher distraction environments. As with every other command, you would proceed towards longer durations and a variable reward schedule with “leave it.” Before doing these exercises outside with a halti or starmark, she should have learned to avoid and escape a correction in a low distraction environment. Once you’re at the point, where you have introduced phase 2 in a low distraction environment, and move to higher distraction environments, you would set up situations- don’t wait for her to find something she wants, before asking her to leave it. Have you watched the Foundation v4.0 livestreams on phase 1 and phase 2?
https://dogtraining.world/intro-to-phase-1-obedience/
That would have much more information, than the youtube clips. You would introduce phase 2 with a command like “sit” or “place.” If those make sense to you, then a phase 2 leave it would be similar to teaching a phase 2 “place.” Are you rewarding her with the same thing you’re asking her to leave alone?
If you could show a video, of we’re you are with leave it, it would be easier to suggest, how you should proceed.
Best,
Daria
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I swear by probiotics- for both myself and dogs :-). It takes 2-3 weeks for them to really start working, so it’s something that has to be given daily to have full benefits. For dogs, I give goat Kefir, since goat milk is easier to digest than cow milk. Otherwise, I give human-grade probiotics- the kind that need to be refrigerated and are coated to prevent degradation in the stomach.
Re- diarrhea- have you tried playing with how much fat, you’re including with the raw diet? Some dogs can be very sensitive to that. It may also help to freeze the meat before feeding or blanche it before feeding. Usually having more calcium in the form or bone or eggshell, will help firm stool.
Also, any chance that stress can be exacerbating some kind of parasite? maybe needs re-testing?
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Thanks so much! Those answers were super helpful! sorry that I missed the Q&A. The examples about when to use NO in real life situations really helped clarify things! If you feel like your dog is getting in the habit of not coming all the way to you, would you then also skip the NO when he stops part way? What do you think is fair in cases where the dog is so focused on something on a hike that they don’t acknowledge hearing their name?
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Thanks very much for your answer! I was wondering about how you avoid poisoning a cue or how you would respond to the “Pavlov is always on your shoulder” criticism of using punishment in dog training. On the opposite end of the spectrum, do you ever see corrections becoming positively reinforcing with certain trainers’ timing or certain dogs? Watched a few seminars by Kathy Sdao, where she said this was a problem with balanced training vs “old school training,” referencing the work of Murray Sidman in rats, where he showed that shocks can be used to teach new behaviors after they’re repeatedly paired with food (summary here http://www.kathysdao.com/articles/what-not-to-pair/).
Definitely makes sense that it’s important to be careful not to have the onset of the correction follow the command. I’m still confused about the command/correction timing though. I thought that during escape conditioning with a leash, that leash pumps would begin momentarily before saying the command (SIT) and that they would end immediately after the dog sat? If they begin at the same time isn’t some learning blocked? Or is the command/correction timing different once they’re learned how to escape the correction?
I had been thinking of your command structure as the dog first being given an opportunity to complete a positive reinforcement trial (with variable reward schedule) as signaled by their name. If the dog didn’t respond, he would be given a warning about the onset of a negative reinforcement trial (NO), which he had a small window to avoid by responding. If he still didn’t respond, he would have to complete a negative reinforcement trial.