Parly
Forum Replies Created
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Wonder whether the reaction of humans is a key factor more or less either way depending on a dog’s breed? Interesting.
As a very young kid I remember being told when faced with an aggressive dog all teeth and noise – stay still – look away and do nothing. We lived in a rough area where dogs roamed loose everywhere and you just learned to read their body language and pick up on which ones were friendly or which you should leave alone but the few that came at me like they were ready to rip out my throat did leave me alone after I’d stood stock still for a few minutes not making a sound or moving a muscle.
My own dogs are triggered by sudden movement and loud noises so kids screaming and running in a panic is almost guaranteed to get them up on their toes and ready to go after them but they will stop and lose interest if they stop because without all the running and shouting they switch off.
Same when the police have dogs they are going to let loose – they always warn the suspect they’re about to release their dogs and say very clearly when the dogs finds them to stay still, not resist and they won’t get hurt.
Some dogs won’t take no for an answer and go for you no matter in which case you have little option but to fight and do whatever needs must but until one physically went for me I’d always go with the stand still – look away and do nothing tactic.
Definitely got me out of a scrap or two anyway.
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Also I don’t get what for some is an absolute obsession with clicker training. I have seen some incredible results from use of a clicker (friend trick-trains horses with one) but it’s not something I’ve ever worked with or found useful when I did try the one belonging to my friend.
It just seemed to be an unwanted and unnecessary distraction like a middle man between the dog doing the right thing and me praising them for it. Do this – yay!!! I didn’t need the click in-between to indicate anything and neither did they.
“You mustn’t be using it correctly. You have to make sure you’re clicking it at the right time or it will become confusing. When did you click? Did you click it at this point or that one? The timing of the click matters”
“I DIDN’T TIME THE CLICK WRONG WE JUST DIDN’T NEED THE SODDING CLICK!!!”They couldn’t grasp that for me it just wasn’t needed and served as a distraction than anything but rather than just go “OK then whatever works for you” it had to be something I was doing wrong and they would bang on and on and on…
Same with their steadfast belief in using food or toys as a main motivator or reward – which I have nothing against but haven’t ever needed and don’t use.
If I thought it would be useful with any of my dogs just to get them started and focused I’d try that out but haven’t needed to so don’t see the need to start now for no reason.
When I mentioned having my dogs sit and wait until I gave them the nod before tucking into food they came at me with fire and pitch forks. It’s usually only a few seconds anyway but from the word go I like to work on impulse control training and always start with food.
Will set down dishes and they sit looking at me patiently until I either nod or say “OK” and it just stops them diving straight in and teaches impulse control and general manners.
They wanted my blood that day.
Again I’ve met some really decent PO trainers and learned a lot from them in all fairness. There are some excellent ideas and training techniques that work well if not better than was historically considered the right way if you will but as with everything else those that let the side down really do let it down badly.
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“Aversive” You missed that key word used to describe anything a dog may not want or like.
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For smart dogs like the GSD there’s all sorts of different things you can do and make use of and work to your advantage as well once you know how!
The ideas already mentioned about playing hide and seek for nose-work is always a great one and dogs tend to really enjoy it once they learn the rules and are made to work at finding whatever it is you’ve hidden.
After the basic obedience and general commands I generally like to work on other stuff that involves trick-training and tasks such as toy identification then extending on that to place specific items into a certain place i.e. tidying up for you.
When you have a smart dog like yours it’s relatively easy to teach them how to identify certain objects by just showing and repeating a word then placing it back down, saying the name and prompting them to nudge, nose or pick it up then give lots of praise for having picked out the right one. After that I’ll introduce another and do the same until there’s a few different objects they’re able to pick out.
Once they’re confident and pretty reliable in picking out the right object I’ll usually extend on what we’ve already done but when they pick up the correct toy – prompt them over to the tub either by physically moving it and putting it inside then taking it straight back and repeating it again.
So I might say “Get your ball!” and then when they pick up the ball immediately say “Tidy up” and prompt to place inside the tub or do it for them before putting it back and starting over with “Get your ball” and then doing the same thing until they start to pick up what you’re asking and move over towards the tub and try putting it inside. From experience it can sometimes take a while before they suss that they have to let the ball go so you may need to “Drop it” whilst they’re positioned in a good spot.
Once they’ve mastered the art of what “tidy up” means you can further extend it – for example mine have been given the job of taking plastic tubs and stuff for recycling. Just throw them an empty carton or bottle and tell them “Recycle” and having gone through the drill with that word they’ll trot off and put the cartons or plastics into the bag.
Same for “Laundry” which they take whatever you hand and trot off into the kitchen to put inside the washing machine or leave in front of it.
I find it’s best to work on trick-training little and often because if you keep it up too long they can get fed up, lose interest and won’t enjoy it or want to do it again. See a lot of people trying to get dogs doing the same thing over and over and getting frustrated if the dog has switched off. Don’t keep going when the dog isn’t focused or enjoying it and you’re more likely to keep his attention and make him want to engage and do more in future.
Surprising how even if you just do one or two things for a few minutes each day it soon becomes a whole range of tricks, behaviours or household chores.
My eldest dog now does things I hadn’t planned to do but she loved keeping her brain active and challenged so my daughter now does trick-training and heel-work and all sorts with her.
This video was taken when we were moving back home after a flood last year and I put the dog to use by sending her off to find and bring back any / all shoes she found. God love her she found every single one as well!
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When we did the fun agility last month just to let him have a try and help build confidence the guy said “As it’s his first ever try he doesn’t need to do the poles… just let him go over those jumps and if you can go through the tunnel but if he’s not keen on the poles it’s fine”
My God did he weave those poles… bounced in and out through each on his front legs like he’d done it his whole life.
“Hang on you said he’d never done this before? If I change the layout and he goes clear like that again I’ll give you whatever colour rosette you like” so we took a black rosette home with us.
Someone said after he looked identical to”Tex” but I didn’t know who or what they were talking about so had to go and look him up later and he does – spitting image of him!
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Hi Sharon – no no bizarrely enough mine doesn’t care for Frisbee at all! (the toy I mean not my daughter’s little hamster “Frisbee”) but think John said the Welsh took a shine to one. Have friends that do Frisbee sports with their collies and my God… they height they make is incredible.
With my eldest and most of my dogs to be honest it’s all about the magical tennis ball. Have to limit when and where she plays with it because like all collies it would become a real obsession otherwise but it does work brilliantly for keeping her focus when needed which was great when she was still a puppy and hadn’t quite cracked the impulse control / stop commands training but I needed her focused on me urgently because of a loose sheep or cows. Out came the magical tennis ball and that was it – never took her eyes off.
Border collies are exceptional at dog sports you’re right. Their intelligence is incredible though. I swear there’s almost nothing those dogs can’t do. Sadly misunderstood and underestimated dogs so often end up in rescue before they’re even a year old and then passed or sold from one place to another.
An 8-month that only came to us two month ago from a huge farm as a non-worker entered a fun agility class in the local dog show last month and after just two dummy runs he shot round that course so fast the guy running it didn’t believe it was his first ever try so changed the layout and asked us to run again – and he sailed it again. What he lacks as a sheepdog he certainly makes up for in agility, flyball and tracking.
Aussie Shepherds are brilliant. A handful for sure but brilliant dogs. Know a couple that were at Crufts for Flyball this year actually.
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No worries. Have included two with info specific to border collies but think the info about behaviour and instincts might still be relevant to your work with the Welsh.
The trick of tapping into that focus and drive / concentration and then tweaking it to your advantage during training is easier said than done (and lengthy to try and explain!) so rather than spam your post with any more at this point I’ll let you have a read and then come back later.
Good luck! -
Hi – just a quick reply with a few links that might be useful to read through and help you tap into this particular dog’s amazing abilities to control other issues whilst focused on you (as with the frisbee) so a sudden triggered instinct to chase or herd can be interrupted and brought back on track.
I have two border collies one of which is 3yr old female and very strong working sheepdog. She threw me the biggest challenge I have ever had in my life and would go from being ultra focused, sneaking and creeping like an ultra-ninja dog without taking her eyes off me – then set off at full throttle in the opposite direction for just no reason. I now realise collies do everything for a reason. There’s no random misfires or breakdowns in that well oiled machine unless it’s being kept by poor mechanics I guess!
Welsh Collies are slightly different but the same in that both have such intelligence, concentration and incredible ability to switch off to everything else around them the second they switched on to another elsewhere is typical of a strong working / herding dog.
Anyway links to articles and info on both Welsh and Borders but will pick this up later when I’m back at home.
*Also reading “Today I was having a game of Frisbee with her on a village green” tickled me to no end because we have a syrian hamster whose name is Frisbee. Conjured up all sorts of fantastic mental images of you throwing our little hamster all over the village green!
http://www.welshsheepdogsociety.com
http://www.wildenfarm.co.uk/dogs
http://www.bordercollierescue.org/advice/bcr_leaflets/Instincts.html
http://www.bordercollierescue.org/advice/bcr_leaflets/behaviour.html
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Yay!!
Have a few success stories I’ll probably come back to and post later on but it just struck me as really odd nobody had shared any so far.
Look forward to reading about yours though 🙂