[Dave Page]

I’m not old school yank and crank nor do i believe in beating on them. Never have been even when I trained my first one a long time ago for i feel it fosters distrust.

(For refernce: to me sharp and hard correction are different depending how it affects the dog. First dog I ever trained couldn’t stand it if I talked to him, even softly, like I was upset with him. If I were to gently tap him with a finger and speak to him like i was upset he would whine and if he could reach it lick it like it was an open wound. He was NEVER beat or abused. To me that was a sharp correction for him. He wasn’t a timid dog. He was hardcore stock dog.That same dog backed up a grown man he thought was meant me trouble.)

Referencing Ace, sharp doesn’t mean hard correction. More of a pattern interupt (theory working on.) which comes as a suprise and gets the attention. I have backed up with him in some areas and advanced in others. He was corrected more for his biting. I see i haven’t been thorough in my journals.

He has surprised me how well he holds heel, sit and down, even amid distractions of people in businesses I take him in.

He learned all without Any corrections. Just encouragement unless one considers leash pumps for the heel corrections.

He is with me all day, when he isnt asleep, or im working with Luke in the evenings, all our interactions are some type of playful training.

Lexi: very high prey drive. Ex: her sister (same age) was found in the rafters of a barn after a cat. After falling out of the rafters she climbed right back up a shelf into the rafters again before they could grab her. She was walking open rafters.

I keep going over everything I can to see what we missed with her to avoid having to use harsh corrections. She is perfect in an environment of no distractions.  Get her around something she wants she will hit the end of the leash even when she knows she is wearing a prong collar if you’re not ready and it won’t hardly phase her.  A bunch of kittens have shown up at our place. Never know where they are going to be.

With Luke, although I didn’t document it all, I followed foundation style phase 1-3, No harsh corrections, and he is the most reliable on his obedience for a 10month old I have ever had. Unless it involves a skunk. 🙁

[Dave Page]

Thinking back to past dogs I had trained i recalled anchors I had inadvertently instilled.

I discovered in the first dog consciously trained I had accidentally set an anchor of 2 affection pats on the shoulder as the end of whatever course of action was underway. I unconsciously always ended play, affection, Etc with two pats along with the words “that’s enough” and then walking away or standing up. After many months I discovered all I had to do was pat him twice or say that’s enough and whatever he was doing would stop. My unconscious quirk of ending play etc and then going to something else  since i got him as a puppy ended up becoming a valuable tool.

The pats were not only an anchor it also became anchored as the pattern interrupt.

[Dave Page]

I have started the habitation chart tried to head off an event this evening.

I had to crate him for a short time so my wife could work with lexi. He had another fit wanting to get Lexi again and nailed my hand when I tried to block him. Lexi has almost made an enemy by distracting him like she wants to play and then taking what he had and leaving. I have been focusing on redirection, when he is focused it is hard to do.

I was attempting to play tug with him successfully for half a minute but led to me being aggressively “attacked.” I was squatted down as not lean over him, he released the tug and started going after my leg and arm after just a few moments, mostly the arm and hand holding the tug. I changed the game to one of chase and seek after a short distraction, and ran to the truck to get my flirt pole. We then had a good game of chase the ‘duck,’ tug, repeat a few times before I called it off.

Since even Lexi still has a hard time not going for the hand or arm holding the tug, I am trying to understand the instinct behind it. We had to go to the flirt pole and gradually progress to holding the tug with Lexi to save our hands and wrists. Still have to watch it as there are times she forgets and goes for the arm or hand.

Most others have always gone for the moving object instead of the hand/arm.

Seems such a propensity to go for the arm holding an object would be good for protection work.

[Dave Page]

Appreciate the reply.

I had forgotten about the habitation chart. Going to start recording tomorrow. 🙂

He likes the flirt pole. Going to have to keep one with me. It works as long as there are no larger animals around for him to sit and watch.

[Dave Page]

Not sure it is actually aggression towards me so much as practicing his herding skills. Trying to make the stubborn “cow” move, because he kept escalating when he couldn’t get movement.

If so I don’t want to repress those drives.

 

[Dave Page]

Thanks for the replies. Could kick myself for not realizing this.

Evaluating this evening it seems to be more technical with Luke and both with Lexi. Since they are still pups they get fed twice a day. We will start one of us feeding in morning and the other at night. Adding in her working with them more.

Besides a little less consistency with Lexi on my wifes part it seems Lexi doesn’t understand the words from her. She sat and looked at her when my wife told her to get the tug toy, Until she understood what my wife wanted.

 

[Dave Page]

I built a small one but would love to have a course that indepth.

[Dave Page]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Thank you.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>I watched it several times as well pausing as often as possible.</p>
<p style=”text-align: left;”>You’re right on the tail. That’s what was throwing me off.</p>

[Dave Page]

I will give the short intense sessions a go.

I had tried wetting him down first but the humidity is so high it doesn’t help.

He definitely likes the cooler weather. When we recently went to Colorado to pick up a cart he had such a blast running in the 40 degree mountain evenings he wound up straining his back (I never thought about him being so out of shape from it being too hot to do much here). I was afraid he was sick or poisoned but the vet said he strained his back.

 

[Dave Page]

Staying still, or ignoring them, does work in most situations.

AS far as a persons reaction; depends on the situation I believe. The one above was a coward lurking in the bushes waiting until I was distracted. Never barked or growled to let me know he was there. When I went back to tell the ‘owners’ what happened a week later, and had my eye on him, he made one vague attempt. They told me they had to watch him themselves and “just don’t ever turn your back on him because he is sneaky.”  :0

There are many instances where people are blindsided.

One of the funny occurrences I’ve had with local dogs years past: Neighbors had a bull dog they let run loose.  He terrorized everybody who walked, bicycled, or rode horses by there. On one evening walk I went by their house.

I through him for a loop. He came tearing out like he was going to eat me alive. I kept walking and ignored him, literally pretended he wasn’t there. He never got quite close enough to grab me but I could hear his teeth click couple times behind me. After about a full minute he went to the edge of his yard closest to the road, sat down, and just looked at me bug eyed. After that, if I walked by he would just sit and watch me. The look on his face still makes me laugh.

 

 

[Dave Page]

Thanks for the replies and personal reviews on e-collars.

I got the dogtra 1900s and so far I am impressed. Especially with the battery life. It has been a full week without charging it. 3 full days on standby, and the other 4 days being used a  couple hours a day. Both the transmitter and collar are still registering a full charge.

The other one I had, apart from being inconsistent on corrections, wouldn’t make it more than a day without needing to be charged.

Luke will actually yip on an 11, a setting I can barely feel if my arm is wet. A 4-8, which I can’t feel, works well for him when he is calm. Comparing that to the other brand I had, a 1 would sometimes feel like a 20 on this dogtra collar.

Anyway, so far the dogtra has shown to be consistent on the level of stimulation also.

I appreciate all the personal feedback and help.

 

[Dave Page]

Appreciate the recommendations.

I have diligently been reading reviews, researching collars and think to give the dogtra 1900s a go. It is now just a matter of taking the step to order it. After the last one causing him so much distress I am chagrined. At least I haven’t seen a single review saying dogtras are inconsistent as I did on the last brand I had.

When we first got it I checked all the variables, trimmed the hair on his neck (thick husky hair), and worked on his escape conditioning, he was doing better than ever for the first week on the lowest level.

After watching many more videos leerburg finally had one which stated most dogs will react at a level a human can’t even feel.  I take that to mean if I could barely feel it on its lowest level when we first got it, he was probably feeling it really well, After a week or so he was yelping randomly on the lowest level; and on that lowest level it was even hurting me at random intervals. 

 

 

 

[Dave Page]

I have had a few occurrences where a dog would actually take food to another dog.

The last and most blatant was six years ago. It was feeding time and I was feeding raw meat.

Before I would feed them they had to sit and wait. A ten month old pup I had then, decided he didn’t want to sit so I ignored him and walked off to feed another one. When I went to feed the last one, she looked at me, picked up the meat, walked off the porch and over to the pup, looked at me with a very serious chastising look, dropped it right in front of his feet while looking at me, came back up on the porch and sat in front of me waiting for me to feed her. I was speechless for she had always shown a propensity to guard her food. The look of disapproval in her attitude towards me over the situation was clear.

 

 

[Dave Page]

I have a question regarding your post Michael. I’ve done a search and haven’t found anything.

You refer to walking territorial mode and migration mode, Migration mode I understand, as the dog is following you. Wouldn’t any walking, with an obedience trained dog in the heel position, be migration mode?

 

Could someone explain the difference?

[Dave Page]

Thank you both.

jocomoreno, appreciate it.

Bungee cord sounds like a good idea. I will do that with the next one I get.

I have narrowed it down between dogtra and garmin. Although there are things I like about both, consistency in the level of correction/output and range is most important too us.

From watching videos I think too few people actually think the collar may be over-stimulating when their dog randomly starts yelping on his baseline level, or suddenly starts acting scared and skittish.

I did find some reviews of the brand I had; they did test it on themselves and come to same conclusion.